Need advice... [Archive] - The Donzi Registry

CDMA

06-10-2002, 11:55 AM

Finally finished up my 18 this weekend but...

I go to start it and the starter is fried :mad: :mad: :mad: I go to take it off and I can't get to it. Because of the monster stringers and huge L aluminum mounts I can't get my hand in there. I have tried and tried but I just can't get to it. I took so much time to rig it and if I can say so I think it looks amazing....but what do I do now? I am getting to the point where I think I may need to take the engine out. I don't want to.

On top of that Lk George is next weekend and I was planning on going but now my boat isn't ready. I could probably get it together this week but I need to concentrate on school. What should I do? Come anyway? Do 3 all nighters and try to get this thing done? I have no idea if this thing is even going to float! All I have on the engine is dyno time...

NOT HAPPY
NOT HAPPY
NOT HAPPY

Chris

FrequentFlyer

06-10-2002, 01:37 PM

Chris -

I don't have any great suggestions, but, I feel your pain. As you know I recently got a new Rolls trailer (thanks to you) just so that I could get to Lk. George without incident. I went to float the 2+3 off my rusting steel trailer this weekend. Before I got off my block the steel trailer started to collapse. I put the rig back in my yard. With all the time I spend at work I am almost out of time. I have a hauler coming over Wed morning to block it up and move it to the Rolls (I hope).

Wish me luck.
Alex

Rootsy

06-10-2002, 02:24 PM

Deep breath Chris... been in your situation a time or two... like AOTH II! so you say you cannot get at it from the front or side because of the stringers which are higher than the starter. Have you attempted going from behind the bellhousing? can you get your butt down in next to the motor or are you like me and the 16 and laying over the gunnel all contorted to get down past the exhaust? Are you just having issue with the two mounting bolts or with all of the wiring also? If worse comes to worse, pop the drive, attach your chain's, loosen the mounts and lift it high enough so that you can get in there to get it out... just be careful, attach a few extra safety straps and stuff, possibly a block under the pan over the stringers if possible... a squashed chris wouldnt be a fun chris... lastly, take your time and relax... otherwise you just fight things and it takes longer...

Digger

06-10-2002, 02:31 PM

hang in there Chris, ditto Jamie's advice....I would add "when reasoning fails, force prevails" but I don't think this is the appropriate time....

Drink a beer and look at it for awhile. If no joy, go to the lake anyway, at least for a day, talk to friends, ride in boats, then come home and start fresh.

Rootsy

06-10-2002, 03:00 PM

thats true digger... forgot the golden rule... "if it won't go... force it... if it breaks it was meant to be replaced..." generally this is a 6 beer rule though...

PaulO

06-10-2002, 04:09 PM

Do what I always did; work on the boat and rely on your keen intelect to get you through your exams. Worked for me. No, wait, it didn't work for me. Nevermind. If it helps the hoist is in my driveway waiting for you.
PaulO

BERTRAM BOY

06-10-2002, 04:42 PM

Chris,
You should definetly still come up. You have a ride.
Besides, I can't believe you of all people can't get the starter out of an 18.......
BERTRAM BOY :D :D :D

anotherScott

06-10-2002, 07:53 PM

Hi Chris,
I also have installed aluminum brackets in my 18' for strength, and came accross the same problem that you have. Being larger than your average size bear doesn't help either. I took a large piece of twine and made a loop. Then sent the loop down between the exhaust manifold and the engine. Put the loop around the starter and have your co-pilot put tension on it while you back the bolts out with a ratchet and a extension. Let the starter lower into the bilge when the bolts come out and drag that sucker towards the front of the engine. If it is too difficult to reverse this process while putting the new starter back on, take the exhaust manifold off to get some breathing room. Good luck..........Scott (anotherScott)

ClassicRazorback

06-10-2002, 09:06 PM

Can you roll start it ???

Drink some Beer and stare at it for a for a while, get up the next morning and try it when your fresh!

Good Luck Man !

Chris

tailwind

06-10-2002, 10:03 PM

Hi CDMA:

Not having a clear picture of you problem or clearances, can only offer the following which in most cases will get you by.

Initial assumption is that you do not have a close tolerance 1/4 drive inch Snap On or equiv. socket set both 6 and 12 pt rachet set - ? Combined with the appropriate universal joints and extensions -3", 6" 10" etc,. I mention the 1/4 inch drive set, because it will easilly cover up to 9/16 inch nuts here, with perhaps twice the clearance. Once you use the drive set, you will always prefer it.

Accordingly, if, and this is a big if ! you can not gain proper acesses to these mounting nuts, then purchase a set of "Crows foot" ? wrenches / sockets which will attach to the previously mentioned drive. Never been unable to solve any clearance problems whatsoever!

Heads up here, we are talking perhaps $ 50 for tools or another hour and a half to pull the monster out! Get the tools and be happy later!

Randy

Rootsy

06-10-2002, 10:09 PM

man i don't recall ever making it out of the snap-on truck for 50 bucks....

CDMA

06-10-2002, 10:10 PM

Guys I am stumped. I went home today and tried my hardest...no luck. It is not so much that I can't get to it but more that I can't apply the needed force. Something must be really messed up because I think the bolt is bound or frozen or something. I am at a loss because I installed the starter with never sieze 2 weeks ago without any issue...bolts went in easy. Well I got tired of scraping my arms up so the engine is ready to come out. All I need to do is lift. I am not messing around with the Bendix or anything. I just got a new starter and I will put this one aside for the 22 if it checks out ok.

Tailwind,

I have all the above tools and I have tried them all. No luck. The real problem is that I am too cautious with my nice new PPG painted engine compartment and engine. I don't want to scratch anything.

Chris

Rootsy

06-10-2002, 10:17 PM

you are pulling TOWARD the stringer aren't you.... assuming you are on the front side of the starter.... sorry man i couldn't resist... i'd give you a hand in a second if i wasn't 700 miles away... just don't scratch her... she is too beautiful wink

MOP

06-10-2002, 10:26 PM

Chris can you pull the exhaust on that side and get to it? On my 16 I pull it off and lay a movers mat on the engine lay on top and hang upside down like a monkey and can see what the heck I am doing.

tailwind

06-10-2002, 10:53 PM

Really have to back up here!

Assuming that you have indeed tried the above , and I do believe you have. There is one product left: "rust buster" available at most plumbing stores. Great stuff, however you got to let it sit overnite.

Past this, for a family posting, gotta say gosh! Somebody must have thrown a spanner in hole- somewhere. Go ahead and pull it?

Scott Pearson

06-11-2002, 06:06 AM

Well, one thing is for sure. Cliff wont be able to help you :D :D .

(NJ)Scott

harbormaster

06-11-2002, 06:52 AM

Scott Pearson..
If memory serves me correct. At Lake George you had your buddy down in the engine compartment removing your starter!

Don't mess with the big guyz!!!! :D

GeneD

06-11-2002, 07:10 AM

Chris, time is running out for you big fella.
Look, I too have been in this kind of position a few times.
If I were you, and don't forget, I've done this a few times, bite the bullet and pull the engine. It can't take more than an hour to do. I know it's something you are trying to avoid, but go over PaulO's house and get it done.
Can't tell you how many times I agonized over pulling the engine and solving my problem or continuing to spin my wheels trying something else.
Good Luck!

mattyboy

06-11-2002, 07:59 AM

Hang in there Chris,

I now how it feels, I can only reach the oil breathers in my compartment,

you'll get it fixed, don't worry

Matt

Forrest

06-11-2002, 10:19 AM

Yea, Chris I'm with GeneD on this one. You probabaly only have to pull the engine up a few inches or so for access. Also, even if you do manage to get the bolts out that hold the starter on, do you think you hang upside-down and stick your arm between the stringer and motor mount to hold the new starter in position while you install the bolts? You'll spend more time trying to figure out how to R&R the starter than if you get in there and pull the engine now. So get on it Chris, and get it done!

CDMA

06-11-2002, 11:19 AM

It is the knurled bolts....damnit poodle is right.

Guys you know me. I have tried everything. Engine is coming out. Guess I need to get the bubble wrap out again...

Chris

RedDog

06-11-2002, 04:37 PM

Chris -Fasttrucker may be on to a good idea - sell the 18. And while your at it sell the little 14 - you don't need those little boats. Quit wasting your time. Send directions to your house and I'll get the F14 off of your hands so you'll have no more worries. Glad to be able to help :D

KMLFAMILY

06-11-2002, 06:01 PM

Any thought"s on using one of those new small hi- torque starters ? Maybe this could provide more space for future access.

harbormaster

06-11-2002, 06:04 PM

FAST TRUCKER. I DELETED YOUR POST. Not all of us have the cash to drop over 50 thousand dollars on damn boat. I know I don't! Chris does not want to hear this kind of dribble.

Sorry to react so strongly but that REALLY hit me the wrong way.

fasttrucker

06-11-2002, 06:19 PM

ya,just remembered my younger days on my back trying to fix the starter,sorry about that.i remember getting a sump pump.that seemed to keep the salt water out and i didnt have to change my starter as often.smaller boats are tight.again sorry about the f.remark. :rolleyes:

CDMA

06-12-2002, 07:42 PM

Thanks for all your help guys. I really am at a loss and only time will tell. I am taking the engine out and I half expect to see a bent or mangled bolt. Oh well. Other bad news is it looks like Lake George is out for me. For sure with the boat and I don't think I am going to even go solo. School is really loading up on me and finals start end of next week. I am trying to make the "mature decision" as my mom would say...

Oh well

Chris

HP 600SC

06-12-2002, 08:23 PM

Chris, bring the boat to my home in Florida, I will do all of the work for you while you lounge around in our pool and sip fresh Daiquiri's made by my lovely wife....while some of her single girlfriends fan you with palm frons in their T-backs. You can use my 22 as a loaner till I get yours fixed. Oh and don't rent a car....you can use the Viper :D

Formula Jr

06-12-2002, 08:35 PM

Ah Chris, its a simple fix. Ya just put an extra pully off the crank see. Cut a knotch in her, and wrap alittle pull cord with a knot on the end in the knotch. 'round her a few times an give a good swift pull. That ought a do her.........

WHAT??? eek!

CDMA

06-12-2002, 09:09 PM

Ted that sounds rough...be right there....23 hours to Sarasota!!!! wink

Jr,

How about drilling a hole through the bottom and coming up that way???

Chris

Rootsy

06-12-2002, 09:26 PM

oh come on none of this destructive stuff now boys! i think you should visit the circus and hire a midget!!!!!

Formula Jr

06-12-2002, 10:24 PM

Better yet Chris, ya could cut a really big hole and install a water proof hatch!!!! You could even make it clear glass so you could see thru it. Wouldn't that be COOL!

Just give'n suggestions... its not like I'm envious or anything... :D :D

Looks like that bullet is going to have some teeth marks on it. You built a race boat. wink

CDMA

06-14-2002, 11:51 PM

Well I got it! Pulled the engine out and had at it. I tried ratchets, impact guns, heat, oil...you name it. No luck. I have never been stumped like this before. SO having about enough I got out my breaker bar hammered on a metric socket and just broke the bolt. The bolt broke inside the thread about 6 threads into the block. I was going to drill it out and put a helicoil in it but I never particularly cared for them. So what I did was I CAREFULLY center punched the broken off bolt inside the hole and drilled it out with a 5/16" bit. Then I took a tap ( 5/16" was the appropriate hole for the 3/8 tap) and ran it through. I wasn't sure how it was going to work but after I was done the threads looked perfect. I was really pleased. So I got the new starter in and the problem was solved. Not sure what the problem was with the other one but I don't have time to deal with it now. I hope to splash tomorrow evening or Sunday.

Chris