Early Donzi - Small Block Ford Question

[FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack]

In looking over the 302 in my "new" barrelback, I couldn't find any timing tab or pointer on the front of the engine. When I asked the previous owner about this, he said he would just set the timing by ear.
Now, I'm assuming that he reused the same water pump and bracketry that was on the original 289 when he installed the 302. Does the water pump mounting obscure or otherwise preclude the use of the timing tab in some way?
Do I have to remove the water pump in order to temporarily install a timing tab when I want to set the timing???
If I fabricate a pointer, I'm pretty sure I'll have to remove the exh. manifold to get a dial indicator in the plug hole in order to find TDC on #1 (but then again, maybe not. I don't know). This is what I'm looking to avoid.
Any suggestions?

FR aka BB :p

[MOP]

Not sure how far back this went but, port side of the timing cover there should be a pointer sticking out of the case at about the 2:00 O clock position facing the engine. I have seen them missing or rotted off from a circ pump leaks over the years. If it is missing you should still be able to find the raised boss maybe replace it. I have made tin replacements that I used two timing cover bolts to hold in place. If you want a real good mark you have to mark both the balancer and the home made plate use a timing stop in #1 rotate the engine till it touches the stop and make a mark on both, then rotate in the opposite direction make your second reference mark. The middles of those two will give you top dead center. Hope fully the degree marks on the balancer will be easy to see or clean up.
Before doing the above remove all the plugs and turn the engine very slowly by hand with a breaker bar so as not to bend the piston stop( a real easy thing to do). If you can't get your hands on one I can mail you mine, better yet make the trip to the east end and I will get you through it, I have had to re establish timing marks many a time working on some of these old boats.

Look at item #27 on page below.

http://216.37.204.201/mercruiser_oem/Mercruiser.asp?Type=13&SubType=111&A=48&B=18

[FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack]

Thanks, M.O.P. I see what you're getting at but what's this "timing stop" you speak of? Is it something you just thread into the plug hole, or is there a lot of disassembly involved?
As for the motor, it's brand new. I found the mark on the balancer no problem, but as for the timing tab, there just ain't one.

FR

[Greg K]

If you found the timing mark on the balancer, you'll probably have to place bracket or some sort of pointer to check it. Also they make a decal or tape with degree marks that you stick to the balancer.
Link To Timing tape (http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=2083&prmenbr=361)
Link to Ford Timing Pointer (http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=168450&prmenbr=361)

[FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack]

Yes, but I'd still have to bring the #1 piston to TDC to determine where to put the pointer. I'd like to be able to do that without pulling the head.

FR :p

[penbroke]

Mine (289 Cobra) is a post that is part of the timing chain cover casting. About 1:30 to the crank pulley in the photo below.
http://www.donzi.net/photos/penbroke_timing_pointer.jpg

Why not just replace that cover?
You can look at mine on Sat. :D

Frank

[FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack]

Thanks Frank, I was wondering if it might not have been something like that. I'll have to look again on my motor tomorrow. I assume the 302 (I think it's fron the '80s) has the same block casting, and thus the same timing chain cover??? (I'm a Chevy guy, I don't speak Ford fluently yet)

FR :p

[mphatc]

Finding TDC is easy

Remove the spark plug and install a TDC locating whistle . . . these are fairly accurate.

FWIW, I tune my 302 H&M by ear and feel. . . . But that's after 25+ years of performance engine experience . . .

MPHATC

[Rootsy]

i believe i have an original 1965ish vintage 289 timing chain cover (actually 2, but the other is on my early 64 289 :D ) somewhere in my lovely stash of sbf parts... in GOOD condition...

fwiw, the timing chain cover mounting should be the same... the late HO motors used a reverse rotation water pump though due to the serpentine system...

you can tell if you have a late model roller motor by the firing order.. the late model 302's use the same firing order as the 351W. older 260/289/302's use 15426378 for a firing order.

you can go fishing for an engineering number on the block.. she'll be on the underside of a little pad down by the starter... doesn't tell you much cept the year of engineering design release... unlike chebbies which tell you a heckuva lot more...

[MOP]

MPHATC top dead center whistle is a new one on this old dog! Sounds great, will it be as close as using a piston stop? I have found that method very accurate. I can see it will go silent at top. Being as we are talking timing, how many people clip on #1 to shoot Time? I bet about 99+% do. Well try this one on for size check you timing real careful now move the pickup to the coil wire. I bet most of you will say Holly ****! Not only do you see the mark very clearly it stands a lot more still and will be on the same mark you shot #1. Try it you may never use #1 again to time. I learned that back in 1959 from a now older but very prominent drag racer shooting time at Field 5 at Eglin AFB. I was under an Army blanket in the blazing sun shooting my timing on my 320 inch Jimmy with an old cold light(before a lot of guys time) when he piped up said shoot off the damn coil I said What! But knowing this guy ran like a scalded dog I listened I could not believe my eyes timing with that old piece of crap light was now easy. No I am not going to say who it was, but back then he towed his galvanized pipe chassis dragster with a beat up 50 Ford P/U just a couple of years later he was doing harm to the California boys. Some of you Southern old timers may remember Field 5 it back then was the very best drag strip south of God knows where. It was an old bomber site one of several at Eglin with three runways one big one the strip used the top end of another for the pits and one the go carts used. We had many of the now famous but unknown then names come to race there. Damn got off and going on this one Pardon me gents!

PS Frank tip that photo up straight it closer to 2;OO :D :D

[BillG]

All the early timing covers interchange. The later 302's have 4 bolts on the crank pulley unlike the 3 in the picture in this thread.

Bill G

[penbroke]

M.O.P.:
PS Frank tip that photo up straight it closer to 2;OO :D :D Considering where you have to be to take that photo with the engine IN the boat I thought it was pretty good. wink wink

Frank,
Starting a scrapbook of MOP Tips and Tricks.
Keep 'em comming! :D

[Rich]

FR aka BB,
The 1968 - 1972 302's and the 1968 289 used a seperate sheet metal timing pointer that is bolted to the timing cover. Someone probably left it off. The photo of Frank's engine shows the type that is part of the timing cover casting used on early 289's.