Is this a good Engine Price?

[AGUESS]

Hi everyone, I need to repower my 66 18'. Have OMC 302. Found a new marine 351 ( non HO) with carb & electronic dist. Price $2,650.00 without the carb & dist and $3,275.00 with.

This has Ford Factory Warranty.

Is this a good price? I am told that Ford is no longer making the non HO 351.

Thanks

Alex.

[Rob]

I don't know about the price, although it sounds pretty reasonable. However do be aware that the 351 will require a different bellhousing from the 302.

[AGUESS]

Thanks, I had heard this and found a 351 OMC 240 HP intermediate housing through ebay.

[Forrest]

Alex, that's an awfully expensive carb and distributor, but the price for a new (not rebuilt) engine sounds about right. One thing that you need to be aware of when going from a 302 to a 351 is that the 351 is about and inch to an inch and a half taller and wider than the 302. In my case, in my 1972 16 Donzi, there was no way to fit a 351 without cutting and hacking the hatch and exhaust outlets. Since this boat has original gel-coat, that wasn't going to happen. I ended up getting lucky and finding a new-old-stock Kodiak 302 Ford complete marine engine for $2500. Once it was in hand, I tore it down and installed KB pistons, ARP rod-bolts, Crane Powermax marine cam kit, Edelbrock Performer 289 intake, Mercruiser cast aluminum oil pan, and gasket matched the intake ports. It already had freshwater cooling, Kodiak center-rise aluminum exhaust manifolds, Holly 450 cfm 4v marine carb, and a Prestolite electronic marine distributor. So I was set! I went this route primarly because it was easy. No drilling, no cutting - nothing! Anyway, all I'm saying is just because the 351 bolts to the 302 bell housing, doesn't mean that its going to drop right in. You may need to do a lot of work to make it fit. Good luck in which ever way that you decide to go.

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Forrest

[This message has been edited by Forrest (edited 07-07-2000).]

[Emmo]

The trick is not the bell housing. I have been able to interchange bell housings between 302 and 351 engines with no problem. Older 289 and 302 engines were internally balanced in a different manner than 351s and newer 302s. Ford changed the internal balancing and the firing order (and hence the camshaft) in order to reduce stress on the crankshaft. If you change to a newer 302 or a 351, you will need to find a flywheel that will work. I had to send my old flywheel to Total Performance in Detroit (810-hot-ford) to have them find me one that would work and it cost me about $300.

Somebody asked me if .080 was too much to bore a 351 block. My experience with the Ford blocks is that they can handle a lot more stress and have a much more durable cylinder wall than Chevrolets. I can remember when the Indy guys were doing their "stock block" testing and one team found that the SBC cylinder walls would collapse at about 10,000 RPM but the Fords could handle much more than that and I don't think that they ever had a cylinder wall collapse in a SBF.

I should be working instead of jabbering!

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Emmo mailto:emmette@emmette.comemmette@emmette.com</A>

[AVickers]

Is this a Windsor vs Cleveland thing????

I remember something about there being 2 distinct 351 Ford Engines a Windsor (that I think was like the 400 -- fairly pedestrian) and a Cleveland (that was like the 289/302, which was hot stuff)?????

Or visa versa??????

I remeber that the Ford guys were more-or-less indifferent to one version and would get all excited about the other. At the time, I was a MOPAR guy so for me, there was nothing to get excited about if it wasn't a Kieth Black Hemi or a Cross-Ram Wedge.

[Emmo]

Clevelands have canted valves and the right model (4bbl w/ 11-1 compression) could really produce the revs. They were prone to rear main seal leaks and other maintenance problems. The 351M was a detuned Cleveland with wimpy 2 bbl heads. The 400 was a stroked 351M. Some really beefy Cleveland blocks were made in Australia and were called (go figure) Australians. H&M brought them in to use in their NASCAR campaign but the engine was so fast that NASCAR outlawed it fairly early. The Clevelands also made it into Boss 351's and De Tamosa Panteras.

Just about all marine engines are Windsors. I have seen one Cleveland in a boat (cool little Corsican at the Orlando show) and it had a $10,000 exhaust system. Windsors are long living motors, even in marine applications. It is not unusual for a Pleasurecraft 351 to last 2,000 before it gets tired.

Ford quit making most pushrod V-8's a couple of years ago. Pleasurecraft signed a 10 year deal for 351s, which Ford has already produced. They may be making a few 5.0's still but not for long. Ford is pushing their modular OHC motors now.

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Emmo mailto:emmette@emmette.comemmette@emmette.com</A>

Still need the spell checker!

[This message has been edited by Emmo (edited 07-07-2000).]

[Craig]

Emmo,
It's good to hear 351's are long lived. Just bought a new PCM 351HO last year for my boat. Runs good so far (now if I can just get the old Volvo 270 back in working order!! --Avickers says I got u-joint problems). Also w/ regard to price, as was mentioned, that sounds about right. I looked around a good bit and thats in the ball park of what I paid. I also paid a little bit of a high price for a marine carb and elect. ignition switch over, but marine carbs are a bit expensive.

[AGUESS]

Thanks everyone.


Alex.