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View Full Version : COBALT/DONZI (copy pics)



Craig
11-24-2000, 05:39 PM
Tried this once, must've screwed up. One more time? For those interested...
Cobalt Donzi look-a-likes (http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1175682&a=10035190)

[This message has been edited by harbormaster (edited 11-27-2000).]

Forrest
11-24-2000, 06:01 PM
. . . not yet.

How 'bout click on this . . . (http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1175682&a=10035190)

( you were trying to "IMG" an entire web page rather than a single image)


[This message has been edited by Forrest (edited 11-24-2000).]

GEOO
11-24-2000, 06:22 PM
Craig, Where did you get those photo's? I never knew Cobalt make a similar boat. GEOO

olredalert
11-24-2000, 07:37 PM
Craig,
Got to hand it to you!These are fantastic pictures.What a treasure trove of history.Gee,do you think Don had it right????Another whole company built itself on the back of DONZI.Of course,I knew about Cobalt back then,everybody did.They were hard boats to sell back then because if you could afford a Cobalt you could afford a DONZI,and get the REAL THING!Thats not meant to denigrate Cobalt exactly.Ive really never looked at a Cobalt closly.Dont know about quality,strength,and all the other many things that go into a successfully built boat.I do know one thing,DONZI was always THE BOAT,Cobalt always the pretender..........just.......ol red!

BERTRAM BOY
11-24-2000, 10:32 PM
Wow....Thanks Craig, those are cool pics.
BERTRAM BOY

Craig
11-25-2000, 12:21 AM
GEOO,
The photos are from researching the boats. Got some from contacts here (Donzi page) and some elsewhere. The green and white XV-200 is my boat and the catalog pics, Cobalt president (then and now) Pack St. Clair sent to me about 15 years ago (result of an inquiry when I bought the XV-200). Whole catalog is neat.
oldredalert and BERTRAM BOY,
Glad you liked the pics too!
Thanks,
Craig

olredalert
11-25-2000, 09:43 AM
Craig,
I guess you would be the guy to ask.Did Cobalt build as good a boat as DONZI?Its a question that has come up over the years,but never had any one qualified to answer it.Being as new to the board as I am,I guess it may have been talked about before,but would look forward to your input!.........just........ol red!

Tony
11-25-2000, 02:35 PM
Speaking for the reddish/orange Corsican/Cobalt, with the cockpit picture in Craig's album, this boat has been used hard over the years and is in very good shape. I believe the quality of the Cobalt knock-offs to be similar to Donzis. This Cobalt can also be seen under a thread in the "boats for sale" section, even though it's not officially for sale.

BigGrizzly
11-25-2000, 05:48 PM
The boat in the for sale will clean up real nice for someone. I have a real Donzi Corsican and love it. Part of the love is, if someone asks, "hat kind of boat do you have", I say Donzi- every body knows what that is. I wouldn't feel as good if I said a Cobalt or a Donzi knock off. It is like giving my wife a zercon instead of a diamond. I asked my wife and she agrees. No offence Cobalt makes a nice boat, full of bells and wistles, defrosters etc.



[This message has been edited by BigGrizzly (edited 11-25-2000).]

MerC
11-25-2000, 09:34 PM
Craig..thanks for posting those pics..not only are they great looking boats, but I
learned to ski behind a 19' Cobalt. Brought back some good memory!

I also did not realize Cobalt got there start as a DONZI knock off..very interesting, because I got started in boating with Cobalts.

Ol red..I have always felt Cobalts are very well built boats. From the gel to the rigging I think they fit and finish them nicely. Heavy though.

Marc

Craig
11-26-2000, 12:54 AM
Ol Red,
With regard to the construction quality of these old Cobalts, mine is still in very good shape (approx. 30 yrs. old), and by Tony's comments above, his friend's GT-500 is still in very good shape.
I only really have a handful of Classic Donzi's (old ones) and "Donzi Classics" (newer ones)to compare to out here in Western Maryland. One 1967 16' Ski Sporter and one 1978 18-2+3 (both owned by the same guy),one 1996 16' Sweet Sixteen and one 199? 22' Classic (owned by 2 other guys).
Have compared closely to the '67 (inside, outside, hardware, structure, etc.) and they really are nearly identical. Pretty Cool!
Marc,
Your comment got me to thinking about my early ski memories. I learned to ski behind a (now classic and unfortunately sold) mahogany Chris Craft inboard, except it wasn't a classic then, it was pretty new. Yikes, thats a real good sign I'm getting old. Hey, at least I'm still skiing!
Craig

MerC
11-26-2000, 07:31 PM
Hang in there Craig..My mom and dad are still good for one pull a year! I intend to ski for as long as I can..

Marc

MerC
11-26-2000, 07:32 PM
Oh, I forgot to add...behind the same Cobalt!

ALLAN BROWN
11-27-2000, 07:17 AM
AFTER ARONOW WENT TO MAGNUM, AND I WENT TO NOVA, WE DISCOVERED TO OUR HORROR THAT COBALT HAD POPPED THE ENTIRE LINE OF DONZI. WE CONFRONTED THEM AT THE 1968 CHICAGO TRADE SHOW (YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN THE LOOK ON PACK'S FACE WHEN WE WALKED INTO THE BOOTH) AND TALKED VERY LOUD TO THEM. TO MY SURPRISE, THEY HIRED JIM WYNNE AND DID A COMPLETE NEW LINE OF BOATS. PACK AND I HAVE BEEN FRIENDS EVER SINCE.

ZZ
11-27-2000, 08:24 AM
Hi !
A friend of mine here in Sweden got an old Bertram 25. He´s looking for spare parts. Anyone know about a good place to look? BertramBoy perhaps?

Craig
11-27-2000, 11:15 AM
Allan,
Finally, someone who knows! Thanks for the input. Like you said, must've been a shocker. If you compare the old Cobalt catalog to some of the old Donzi catalogs you'll notice that even the boat's positions (i.e. how they're pictured) for the respective copied models are identical, and many of the picture's captions are paraphrases of the Donzi catalog (e.g. where Donzi catalog says "Racy ,rugged, high spirited..." in the Ski Sporter 16's caption, the Cobalt catalog says "Racing spirit in every line..." in the XV-200's (copy of Ski Sporter) caption). As if that wasn't enough, the GT-200 and GT-500 actually had the words "Cobalt design" Bizarre! Didn't try to cover up the copying of the boats much by changing anything. That always amazed me. Good to hear you and Pack are good friends. Never met him, but a local Cobalt dealer tells me he's a real nice guy.

Emmo
11-27-2000, 10:40 PM
Yo Craig-
How did you get the PCM engine to rotate the "right" way. All of the PCM engines that I have had are counter-rotating.

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Emmo mailto:emmette@emmette.comemmette@emmette.com</A>

Len
11-27-2000, 11:24 PM
how come Cobalt got shut-down, for doing what others have done,and still do since. My point in question is the Python Viper www.pythonboats.com (http://www.pythonboats.com) . Their 18 looks like an exact copy and is in production today. Some people on the registry have stated that there are no "patents or trademarks" on the hull design and/or layout and it's open season while others have said that you need to change things by just over 50%. If there is no reference to the name "DONZI" does it even matter? People are now trademarking "Z-step" and names of the like but others are creating the exact same thing with a different reference name. Is this legal/illegal. I have now seen a few copies of the 16 and 18's up here, not in production anymore mind you, (haven't been for 20 years) but they were exact copies and were marketed commercially under other names. I have seen one other here that is a classic 16, smoothed keel, not sharp, with a classic front deck, a barrel back transom and an x-18 rear deck/spoiler area. Talk about getting things mixed up... http://www.donzi.net/ubb/confused.gif

[This message has been edited by Len (edited 11-27-2000).]

olredalert
11-28-2000, 09:17 AM
Len,
This is almost pure guesswork,because of my weak memory,but I dont think any one shut Cobalt down.Brownie would know better than me,but I think that the DONZI pops production stop stemmed mostly from weak sales,and a desire to keep the doors open.At that point they changed directions looking for a broader market..........just.........ol red!

Craig
11-28-2000, 11:47 AM
EMMO,
I always have to think about this to get it right, but I believe the PCM I installed (it's been 2 summers ago now) "is" counter- rotating (i.e. LH rotating as viewed from the back of the engine (the boat)). Whichever is correct, I was aware of the possibility of ordering an engine that might have been "wrong-rotating", so I talked with the supplier, as well as a few mechanic friends, at length on the issue. As I recall, he used the term standard rotation, which is what matched my old HM 351W. I sort of thought the term "counter rotating" more or less applied to 2 engine installations and a backwards or "not standard" rotating engine was just referred to as "reverse rotation". The PCM was what they called a "Ford Base marine engine" (5.8HO). Thats the engine with heads, intake, water pump, flywheel, spark plugs, oil pan, oil filter (even had oil in it!). Funny thing was, with all that included, I had to order a dipstick! Didn't use the water pump; mine was just set up for the one Jabsco raw water pump and no circulation pump. There were a handful of other little changes. Ford made a few changes from '69 to '96. Could check PCM site @ http://www.pleasurecraft.com
Seems like I checked there after I got the engine. Neat site.
Len,
I don't have a really good answer on the legal end of things with the boat copying thing, but thanks for the comment on the Python Viper. I checked that page. That 18 is pretty cool. Like you indicated, they didn't appear to be trying to hide anything building that model. Pretty wierd.

BigGrizzly
11-28-2000, 06:27 PM
Len, Donzi did have a cort case with them. the only copied the 18 from Donzi. All other factories are leary of Python boats.
My Corsican is code named Mongoose because it eats Vipers. They do make some very high horsepower boats. One viper had a Gary Grimes Twister motor in it and clocled 82 mph on radar For Hot boat mag. Be aware this engine was a large small block. It had more hp than Geeo's engine. The boat nolonger has the engine in it, don't know what happened to it. The Python 24 has a ride plate on the bottom now, cost the ride quality.

Randy

[This message has been edited by BigGrizzly (edited 11-28-2000).]

Eight_(8)_Ball
11-28-2000, 09:03 PM
great pic.si got hold of what was passed off as a donzi 2+3 18'6" boat this spring. but from info from some of the members here and photos on the net belive it to realy be a sutphen. it looks alot in the stern like the first pic. on the link . aside from the right hand wheel the main thing i have not been able to positivly see in any outher photos i have found is the small hump or rise in front of my wheel, see what you guys think! ps, theres ne hull #s and have no idea of exact year either thinking around 74 http://www.donzi.net/ubb/frown.gif http://content.communities.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=view_photo&ID_Community=MikesCustomVStarPhotoAlbum&ID_Topic=4&ID_Message=28

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[This message has been edited by Eight_(8)_Ball (edited 11-28-2000).]

Eight_(8)_Ball
11-28-2000, 09:05 PM
http://content.communities.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=view_photo&ID_Community=MikesCustomVStarPhotoAlbum&ID_Topic=4&ID_Message=27

Eight_(8)_Ball
11-28-2000, 09:06 PM
http://content.communities.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=view_photo&ID_Community=MikesCustomVStarPhotoAlbum&ID_Topic=4&ID_Message=42

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BillG
11-29-2000, 08:27 AM
It looks like a Sutphen, but I believe the chine on them met the deck before it reached the stem. It could be a later version.
Bill G

Owen
11-29-2000, 09:03 AM
Some Cobalts are better made than Donzis.
........ducking.............
And Some Bertrams are better made than Cobalts.
And in some years Formulas were better than one or the other. But there were always small shops that made better boats than all of the above, ie Ocean Master/Blackfin etc.

In all cases, all these boats were better made than the rest of the pack.
If I found a Cobalt knockoff cheap, I'd buy it and laugh at the reindeer games.

Look at 8-ball's boat. Note the deadrise. This plays into my central premise that Donzi's are not "Speed Boats." They are are fast offshore designs. All these semi-copies, pachanga etc., made sure the deadrise was less and could therefore beat the crap out of any pure offshore design on moderate seas. Unless you are on a mission, ala Geoo seeking a 90 mph 18, raw speed to a Classic Donzi is meaningless. If you're going 65 you're fine, if you want 100 - get a Sanger V-drive with a blown BB.


[This message has been edited by Owen (edited 11-29-2000).]

CDMA
11-29-2000, 09:16 AM
Has anyone looked closely at those new Regualtor Center Consoles?? They are some quality and some $$$$.

Chris

Craig
12-04-2000, 02:34 PM
Added 2 pics of a GT-500 to photopoint album. Worth a look! (Green and White w/ a 327) Cool! This is the one mentioned elsewhere for sale. Putting in one more tomorrow. Click on same site as before (above).