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View Full Version : Resto costs



boxy
11-21-2000, 09:45 AM
Can anyone supply me with some ballpark costs on 18 2+3 restoration projects.
Chris, GeneD, anyone else, what would your best guess be, based on hours worked, as to what your deck and hull restos would have cost ?
What would the cost of new dash layout run ?
I know a new interior is around $1800-2000, if the bases are solid could you have an upholsterer re-cover them cheaper ?
How much for all of the bright work, deck rails, and rub rails, the lifting eyes are okay ?
Thanks

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boxy
mailto:sboxma@sprint.casboxma@sprint.ca</A>
Smuggler's Cove
1000 Islands
Ontario

boldts
11-21-2000, 11:14 AM
boxy,
Since I haven't started my hull yet, I can only comment on the interior. Yes, you can find some one to do it cheaper, but they won't have the original patterns. The owner of my Donzi before me did that. The nice curve in the corners of your back bench seat didn't fit correctly and I came to find when I got my new interior from Bilt-Right that they had installed the snaps to hold the upper bench pieces in backwards. There is a flap of material that should not be sticking above the seat back. It should be tucked behind the seat back with the snap facing out. This holds the seat backs up and in correct position. If you have the dollars, don't go cheap on the interior. You may be sorry if you do. A beautiful interior will cover up some of the faults in a hull.

Just my $.02 worth
Scott

Scott Pearson
11-21-2000, 01:14 PM
Im in the middle of my restoration. I dont think you can put a cost on the labor when doing it yourself. If you have someone else do alot of the work its gonna cost big big money. I have done all the work myself except for the Interior and Machine work on the engine. Bilt-Rite did the interior and gave me new everything. Seat bases and pedestels etc. and a cock pit cover. It was around 1,500 with shipping and everything.

As far as the brite work I had all my stuff re-chromed and got the railing parts from Rich. I also bought New railings, Hatch latches and hinges. Bow and stern lights. Gas filler. That all cost me around $1,000

I have gone through about 12 gallons of resin and Lots of fiberglass. Thats about $450.00-$500.00.

All MARINE grade wood about $250.00

Everything for the motor. Machine work, New risers, starter, brackets, Exhaust tips, Etc. Etc. Etc.
around 3,500.00

Fuel tank. 400.00

Guages, Switches, Harness Bilde pump. Trim tabs and pump, Donzi Stickers lots of other BS stuff. Around 1,000.00

Ok. I did all the glass work and painting. I dont know how you want to put a price on that but I would not do what I have done to my 68' 18 unless I got Lots and Lots and Lots of money and of course BEER! To do it right you want to flip the hull over and remove the deck Etc. Etc. Im sure that a good shop would want at least 4,000.00 just to paint the thing. Not including all the glass work and Transom work.

Rolls trailer 1,800.00

Ok now Im sick.....I just added this up and I'm at $9,950.00 and that doesn't include the price I got the boat for. Add 5,000.00

Ok thats 14,950.00 and I'm sure I have to get a few more things so lets say an even $16,000.00 That doesnt include labor!

If you want a nice job your gonna pay. Do it right and do it once! Just ask Rich and Cliff. They have seen my money pit.

****...I need a drink!

(NJ)Scott

boxy
11-21-2000, 02:59 PM
Scott(s), thanks for the numbers, now all I have to do is convert that to Canadian dollars, http://www.donzi.net/ubb/eek.gif http://www.donzi.net/ubb/eek.gif http://www.donzi.net/ubb/eek.gif pick myself up off of the floor, and get going.
Thanks again.


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boxy
mailto:sboxma@sprint.casboxma@sprint.ca</A>
Smuggler's Cove
1000 Islands
Ontario

Ralph Savarese
11-21-2000, 04:49 PM
Well I am in the middle of my resto on my 66 2+3 already finished all the core wood work on the upper deck came out great . That contour balsa is the way to go .
If my estimate is Right I should be around $3000 with 500 in engine parts I hope so that's about all I have to spare but I have a lot of equipment and tools and supplies at my disposal.
Ralph

BERTRAM BOY
11-21-2000, 05:20 PM
Boxy,
Scott, is absolutely right. If you are going to do a restoration, don't cut any corners. He spent a lot of time and money on his boat, and it shows.
Not only did he do alot of work, but what he did was very well thought out( dash layout, wiring, ect. ect.)
Just be sure you want to do a restoation. For not much more money than you put into the boat plus it's initial cost, you can buy a boat in already good condition.
The only other suggestion I have is start buying parts way before you start the project, that way you don't have to scramble around and say to yourself "where the heck am I going to get that?" Good Luck.
BERTRAM BOY

green16
11-21-2000, 10:22 PM
Scott P.,
You the man, doing all that yourself. I have to go the other direction for the hull work but am enjoying getting replacement parts together, lining up rechroming services, new upholstery from Bilt Rite with my original seat (not a bucket) and learning more about Donzi's than I had before. I won't need as many Beers (Damn) but I do what I can. Thats what the fun is all about. Way to go man!

boldts
11-22-2000, 07:34 AM
I second Green16's remarks! Over the last 15 years, I probably have close to $10,000 dropped into that bottomless pit called My Donzi. Every time I start her up and back her off the trailer in between answering onlookers questions, I know why I've spent the dollars.

Scott Boldt

Scott Pearson
11-22-2000, 08:17 AM
Cliff is right. Start buying parts now. Thats what I did and I know thats what Cliff is doing. I have a S**T load of parts piled in my basement and garage. I'm about 90% there. Just need a few more things.

And you must always think things out. There where days when I was working on this thing that I just stood there thinking on ways to make something better. I'm sure I will have a few more as I get along on this project.

I have to tell you that alot of my drive on working on this thing comes from this board. It keeps me going. There are days that I get burnt out and never want to work on it again and I come here and get worked right up again! Have to make the Spring Dustoff in Lake George!

Listen to everyone and take all the info you can in. Then make your own dicision on the way you want to do things. There is a wealth of information here. If you take all the years that the people on this board have been involved in DONZI'S in someway, I would bet its in the 100's! Thats 100's of years of experance and what not to do and what to do.

(NJ)Scott

GeneD
11-22-2000, 08:31 AM
Putting a cost on resto is a very hard thing to do.
I tried to keep all the reciepts from all my stuff, but that soon stopped as it was getting out of control.
I think I laid out a total of $5000 in cash. And I don't remember if that includes the purchase price of $1500.
My big score was buying an old Chris Craft with most of the things I needed. That was the 305 Mercruiser. Ripped that whole thing out cables and all. And installed it into the Donzi. Bought a new 350 last January, for $1100, but then sold the old 305 for $1200. Bought the Alpha SS for $1200, but then sold the Alpha One for $1000.
Junked the Chris Craft, and then swapped trailers, and sold the trailer that was under the Donzi.
There was a lot of give and take.
And no, you just can not put a money figure towards your labor. I worked 6 months straight, every day after work, and all day on the weekends. That is a lot of time.
Resin? Gee, about 10 gallons.
Paint? About 2 gallons of primer, and a gallon of red, and a gallon of white. And tons of sandpaper.
Now that I've had a little time to think about it, yeah...we're crazy!
But as someone up top said, when you put the boat in the water, or pull up to a dock full of people, that is when you realize what this thing is all about.
EGO!!!!!!!
And damn it, it's a good feeling.

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GeneD
007
Melbourne, Florida

[This message has been edited by GeneD (edited 11-22-2000).]

CDMA
11-22-2000, 12:37 PM
11K ..please don't ask me to break down I will cry. Worth it....yup.

oh that includes 3500 for boat

Chris

CDMA
11-22-2000, 12:38 PM
Scot,

Did I hear you are going Alpha with left hand steering?

Chris

Scott Pearson
11-22-2000, 12:56 PM
Cris,
Yes Aplha and Left hand steering. How did you know?

(NJ)Scott

AGUESS
11-22-2000, 06:33 PM
I am almost finished with the complete restoration of my 1966 Classic 18.

This has cost a boat load of cash. I have almost rebuilt the entire boat. All Balsa, Stringers, Transom, Tank, Guages, Wire, Engine and before it hits the water, the drive.

Final cost will be around $12,000.00 and I already owned the boat. Cheaper than buying a new one, but about 4 months of work.

If it were not for the fact that my Dad gave me the boat when I was 13, I would be stupid to have put this much into it.

Also, I have paid a friend who used to build Wooden Chris Craft to help me. His knowledge has been well worth the cost.

The restoration of your Donzi will be a true labor of love, and it will take a lot longer than you think, if you do it right. If you don't do it right, don't do it.

At times I think it would have been cheaper to buy one of the boats listed for sale. It would have been a lot less stress, but not the same.

Good luck with the restoration and don't let it get you down. I have just painted mine and am in love again.

The look of the hull upside down is one of the most beautiful things I have seen. What great lines.

Alex.

CDMA
11-23-2000, 10:19 AM
Scott,

I don't know how I knew it was in the back of my mind. Left hand steering is one of the things which to me makes and old Donzi a classic. I have heard a lot that left hand steering really is prohibative with a mercruiser or any drive of RH rotation. I am VERY interested to see the actual results. Another thing I am very leary of is the whole deal with aftermarket exhausts. I have no doubt that there is an increase in power and possibly speed but how much. Either when I have nothing else better to do ( not likely soon) or Paul O gets a set of exhausts I really want to see the ACTUAL chage and if it is worth the 2K bill. An an opposite note anyone see the new $2500 CMI no polished headers...oh so nice....

Chris

CDMA
11-23-2000, 11:12 AM
Yes madpoodle they are...just harder to find. If I ever went to an Alpha I think that may be the way to go. I was also wondering in the case of an Arneson couldn't you just use a reverse rotation engine to spint he shaft the other way. After looking at the schematic for an ASD 6 I can't see why it would not work. Are there any bad points to a reverse roation engine.

Chris

BigGrizzly
11-23-2000, 11:39 AM
these hedders are the same elbow tops they have been using for years. They are not polished so uou can paint to match boat or what ever. why I don't know. they proform well. The quality is excellant. Donzi uses them as well as Eliminator. they are a direct replacement for merc with silent choice. they will proform well with engines well over 1 hp per cube. I have seen them used on a Eliminator with a 900+ hp blower motor at well over 100 mph. With luck they will end up on my Criterion when I get rid of the aluminum hedders and get some cash. Now my Corsican has CMI sport tubes on it and they are one of the finest pieces of work I have seen in a very long time. in your situation, maybe Stainless Marine will be less expensive. If your other than stock you will see a good seat of the pants feel, regardless of which one you choose. In my case the change was monumental. Call Brownie at Stainless Marine and ask hin. Call Babe Erson at Babe Erson Cams, and ask him, and then call Crane Cams and ask them, these last two have nothing to gain from the sale of exhaust systems.
As I said in a earlier post I gained 700 rpns with no other changes. Another point, restriction builds up unwanted heat in the exhaust ports, not in just the engine.

[This message has been edited by BigGrizzly (edited 11-23-2000).]

CDMA
11-23-2000, 12:26 PM
Scott,

I think Forrest runs a RH alpha SS in his LH little green giant 16. That boat sounds really cool. So Forrest how is the running angle...correctable with tabs?

Chris

Scott Pearson
11-23-2000, 09:19 PM
Chris,
We will soon find out how it works. Im keeping it left hand all the way. I know it will work out fine. I never even considered changing it to Right Hand.I have tabs to make up any difference.

I ran fill PVC piping all the way back for the steering and the wiring. I heated it in a hot box to get the nice soft bends. No more of that looping crap through small sections. Im sure it will keep it from getting wet and also banging around. Just a tip for you guys doing your restorations.

I also ran small PVC up to the Bow light from the dash and also a section for the stern light. NICE AND NEAT!!!!!!

(NJ)Scott

CDMA
11-23-2000, 09:28 PM
Scott,

I like. I will do the same this winter. However a hot box? Please enlighten me.

Chris

Scott Pearson
11-23-2000, 09:50 PM
Chris,
Its a box about 21/2 feet long and 9 inches square. You open it up and lay the PVC inside. You will have to spin the PVC, it helps to have 2 people. It heats it up so you can bend it however you want (It will make it soft like a big limp D**K!). No more glueing 90 degree elbow's on...That looks and works like S**T. The PVC will stay soft enuff to work with for about 5 min. Once you get the form and where you want it you will need to cool it down. Use a rag and some cold water. Then when your all done glass it in. Ask a electrician, they use them. Well, a good Electrician will.

(NJ)Scott

Owen
11-24-2000, 06:30 AM
Its kinda a open question on restore costs. There's different levels of restoration.
If you want a NIB - New in Box type restore - god help you. Doable but you'll spend more than the boat originally cost to make. Most boats are qualified restores or my favorite - a refit. A qualified restore is a boat that had most of the original stuff that just need to be rebuilt/replated/regelcoated/reinteriored and generally tweaked to function. A refit is a Hull with problems that you buy for less than 300 bucks. There is no reason to make it original and as long as the components follow a donzi theme, a refit will work. Geoo's boat pretty much defines a refit. The cheapest type of donzi to fix up is a V drive. The basic drivetrain has'nt changed in 30 years. I personally, don't like mixing left hand steering with right hand props. Yes, tabs will make it flat, but once you launch on a big wave with major air, you're gonna know its not right as the whole boat rotates the wrong way. I scared myself silly doing this a couple months ago cause I didn't realize you gotta jerk the wheel to the right to set it up for the launch. Thats one more thing you gotta think about while your thinking about lots of other things.
How you're going to restore depends on what you got in the first place. If its rare, then it will recoup better the closer you get to original. The less rare it is, the more you should go for a refit. There are plenty of stock Volvo drive 18's. Regardless of my ranting, Cliff is absolutely right in suggesting that you stock up, long term, on items you may need. The cost of any particular exhaust manifold or part on E-bay is 1/2 what you will pay on impulse at retail.

As far as painting the boat, well, any off -the-shelf-hardware-store-rattle-can in the color you like, will work. Isn't that right Steve?

They NEED you! Post something!



[This message has been edited by Owen (edited 11-24-2000).]

BigGrizzly
11-24-2000, 07:43 AM
Owen, both my Donzis are stock steering Corsican-lefthand and prop and Criterion is right and right prop and my sisters is left and left. All three must be corrected when catching big air. This is because the prop is the last to leave the water.

Owen
11-24-2000, 08:24 AM
LL, RR, LL: So where's the imbalance? Was there a boat in here that was L/R or R/L?
Push one of these bastards and you'll know what I'm trying to describe.


Well that sounded pretty curt, so I'll edit this. A boat at speed SHOULD BE balanced. You shouldn't ha'fta think about the prop that much on launch. Isn't that right Mr. Brown.



[This message has been edited by Owen (edited 11-24-2000).]

Forrest
11-24-2000, 11:48 AM
Chris, it's strange, but I find with the Alpha SS I don't need to try to get the bow up to the sky. The old 16's have incredible lift (almost to much) which doesn't leave much of the boat in the water when wide open. For that reason I limit the trim on my SS to about two and a half ticks on the gauge, or put in another way, the trim rams don't extend any further than about 1-1/4" when it hits the limit. Get this, I'm also using a clever prop (23p), too. I've been told to go to a Mirage, but quite frankly, I don't want the additional bow lift and prop torquing that a Mirage prop would provide. Some of the hull must stay in the water when running a 16 in the 65+ MPH range, otherwise it would be just flat uncontrollable. BTW, at wide open, the tabs are all the way up. With the Alpha SS and the 290hp 302 Ford, this 16 is much faster and easier to handle than the stock setup with a the drive deep in the water and a 100 hp less. The original setup was a real chore to drive and would beat you to death as I would try to trim it up to make it go. The effect of the RH prop and the LH steering position was reduced with the cleaver prop, but it was to deep in the water to let it come alive. Now with the SS, the same clever prop comes alive as it breaks the surface of the water and prop torquing effect is further reduced over the standard Alpha type drive . . . but I still don't usually drive this Donzi without a passenger to balance it all out.


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Forrest