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Digger
03-14-2002, 09:47 AM
check out the motor my brother just got...our plan is for me to design a boat to put it in...
http://www.donzi.net/photos/mhowardpackard.jpg

they used to put three of these bad boys in the Elco/Higgins PT boats of WWII fame

sidenote: the gentleman in the photo is my Pop...he served in PT boats in the Pacific 1942/1943

olredalert
03-14-2002, 01:16 PM
Wow,

-----Really cool,Digger!I see 6 exaust ports.Are there 6 more on the other side?Is that a turbo-charger?How many cams?Fill us in on that bad boy.Ive always been interested in PT boats,but never had the privilege of speaking to an actual crewmember.Your dad must have some stories.............ol red!

ToonaFish
03-14-2002, 01:34 PM
Jiminy Cricket, how big a boat are you going to build? That thing is a monster! Make sure Dad keeps an eye on you guys!

Bunches,

Celene 'thinkin the Who's Chicken club may soon have a new craft'

Digger
03-14-2002, 01:37 PM
ol red, it is a V-12, also supercharged. I will get detailed info from my brother and post the specs. Pops does have some pretty good stories...he used to like to hang out with the engineer in the engine room while underway, a space just big enough to cram three of these things...he was at a loss to describe just how loud it was in there :D :D

mattyboy
03-14-2002, 01:51 PM
let's shoe horn that bad boy into a bench seat 16 eek! eek!
I was on a PT boat up in Buffalo at the service men park/museum was docked on the lake pretty cool
it's a boat all right all wood with some big ^$$ motors, I bet Dad has some stories!!! My dad drove a tank in WWII he told some cool,scary,funny stories, I think you should build a boat for Dad,a 12 cyl supercharged 22' classic

Matt

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
03-14-2002, 02:05 PM
And I know where 5 grounded PT type boats are that the navy sold as scrap and they never got scraped!

I will takes some pictures this weekend of them for ya! That would be cool uh?

80 degrees today! :p
75 tomorrow!
Bryan

cummins
03-14-2002, 02:43 PM
Digger did this come out of Boat, plane tank? :D

Forrest
03-14-2002, 05:54 PM
Wow Digger, that looks wonderful!!! What year, number of cyls, cubes, weight length, etc? It looks brand new! Is it?

Voodoocanoe
03-14-2002, 05:56 PM
A friend of mines father used to have an old wooden WWII PT boat which had been converted to a pleasure configuration and it had triple Packard V-12's but unfotunately it was left drydock for many years and totally rotted away it was very impressive but not as impressive as the 70'Garwood with 5 V-12's that was built for to set a tranalantic crossing that currently sits on the Clinton River at Mt.Clemens Marine

BigGrizzly
03-14-2002, 07:03 PM
The tran Atlantic crossing rechord was set in 1956 by the SS United States. I just so happened to be aboard with my family. Dad was going to Europe on a spealing tour with the American college of Chest Physicians. That rechord stood untill the late 1980s or early 1990s when ir was finally broken by only 6 hours by a special built racer( forget what and who). There were over 100 attempts to break the SS United States since 1956. The United states in now in Philidelphia.

Randy

Digger
03-14-2002, 07:35 PM
I'll talk to my brother in the AM and get all the details for everyone...I think it is "brand new"...was never installed in anything...
I gotta run, gonna go fly a helo for awhile on NVG's. tough job but someones gotta do it! :D

CharlieTuna
03-14-2002, 07:52 PM
PT boats were made of wood! most of them were burned when the US left....to keep from falling into enemy hands.I would think that
they would have rotted by now.......wood boats
sold for scrap what?

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
03-14-2002, 08:05 PM
CharlieToona, my post did not say their age, there were PT type boats in all U.S. shows of power, police actions etc, you know, non war stuff, like VN. In fact we still have PT type crafts in service under different identifiers.

I am no history buff, and these are steel hulled I believe, outside Great Bridge, VA where DMAN2 and I boat.
Forrest help me out here! LOL
So to answer your question, the "scrap" would have been steel.
But, I will do some homework and post some factual data once I get their hull numbers.
Bryan

HP 600SC
03-14-2002, 08:06 PM
My uncle served on a PT boat during WW II
as a mechanic and manually shifted the engines
in and out of gear in the engine room via a command from the captain on the bridge!
He told me that he saw over 25 PT boats burned at one time before they left the island. He said
every crewman there wept!

Tomahawk
03-14-2002, 09:39 PM
Yeah Bryan, that would be very cool. I'll look forward to seeing those pics.
Digger - how big a boat do you think it will take to float that motor? One heck of a project!!

RH
03-14-2002, 11:37 PM
Elco and Higgins built PT boats. The Elco was 80' in length. The mechanic sat in the engine room and physically shifted the large Packards in and out of gear. They had large mufflers on the transom that they could open up or run for stealth operations. There was a great article about them in Classic Boating a few years back that Bob Huber wrote. There is a museum on the east coast that has one on display. I'll tyr to look up the article when I get a chance tomorrow.

Forrest
03-15-2002, 02:34 PM
Hay, didn't you guys watch Mchale's Navy on TV years back? You'd know all about PT boats if you did! wink Anyway, I remember seeing what must be a later generation of PT boats with steel hulls running in the Chesapeake Bay near Cape Henry. My Litt'l Green 16 just couldn't hand with them - and I tried. Maybe Bryan, these are the boats that are now surplus near Great Bridge, VA.

Looped
03-15-2002, 02:56 PM
Digger,
Even the "Miss America X" driven by Gar Wood below didn't run mosters like that one your brother has!

http://www.donzi.net/photos/cringer00garw.jpg

Craig

Steven Cohn
03-15-2002, 03:23 PM
Hey guys,
Most motor vessels over 40' have twin diesels that are as large or larger than the one pictured. Point is, "big" motors are common. It's the power/torque to wieght (cu. in.) ratio that we're interested in. Here at the Smithsonian we have a warehouse full of Rolls/Merlin (P51 Mustang and hydroplane)engines (simulare in size to the one pictured) that are rated at 1700 hp. In Nam the US used PTs constructed of plastic and cement. BTW - Huckins (sp) still builds boats w/simulare hull lines as the PTs except they are now FRP.

Not claiming to be part of the solution - Just adding to the confusion.

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
03-15-2002, 09:00 PM
I will get the photos of the patrol boats tomorrow, 80 degrees here is VA!
Full tank of gas, and camera is loaded...

Not sure of their origin, purpose etc, but they are big boys to say the least.

One more day down towards the AOTH II countdown, Nancy and I spoke of it this evening, we went through the guest list and I tried to give what I knew on a few to her to bring her up to speed. I only called a few people names (description)! :D
DIGGER, so what is the story, why did he buy the engine? There must be a plan?
Bryan

Digger
03-16-2002, 08:03 AM
I love this board...what a blast reading all the responses!! sorry for the delay posting in return, I've had a couple crazy days at work. Now it's Saturday...and I'm at work :mad: but it's pretty quiet. anyway, the motor
Packard V-12
supercharged
displacement: 2500 in3
hp: 2000
dry weight: 3,000 lbs eek!
there are some really interesting other numbers, I'll wait for my brother to get back to me I don't want to get them wrong.

Craig great pic of Gar!! no doubt that must be his trusted mech next to him...Elmer...crap can't remember his name right now.

there are a handful of boats existing with this motor installed. smallest we know of is 32 ft. we're thinking to go around 40 ft. my brother is a big fan of Uffa Fox's designs, may be close to one of his styles. this will not happen next week, I am in schooling toward a boat design ticket, but its a slow process, the Marine Corps is a demanding mistress which takes most of my time.

ok enough blabbing. thx for all the posts in response.

"AOTH II cometh...and that right soon"

Looped
03-16-2002, 08:48 AM
Digger,
That's right it's Orlen Johnson his mechanic running shotgun next to Gar when they did the World speed record for 124.91 mph on the St. Clair River back in 1932. Gar was a crazy dude that usually got all the credit for his lines of woodies for designing them but it was mostly people that worked for him that came up with the models like Chris Craft in is early stages of Garwood. If you think about it, he was a lot like Don Aronow if you excluded the napkin designing part.

Digger
03-16-2002, 09:52 AM
Looped, thx for refreshing my memory! sounds like you are an old woodie fan like me and my family. we were always partial to Chris Crafts. My brother is carrying the torch now, since I converted to modern boats. He owns "Scotty", a gold cup racer from the late 1920's, powered by an original Gold Cup Packard straight 6 (beeeeeyootiful engine). The V12 will be for his next project. you can see some pics of Scotty, read her history (and see lots of other fantastic boats) at http://www.nhacbm.org/

SORRY FOR LARGE SIZE, WILL MAKE SMALLER WHEN I GET ON MY OWN COMPUTER

here's a nice shot
http://www.donzi.net/photos/mhowardscotty.jpg

Looped
03-16-2002, 01:03 PM
Digger,
It's tough to not like them when you see them all over the place on Winni.

If I remember correctly, years back when we first had the US mail boat start to come to our dock (one of 2 stops on Little Bear Island) I think that it was an old woody about 26' or so. It’s kind of funny seeing people that pay money to go for the daily ride on the mail boat named "Blue Ghost" and come out to the Islands and realize that it's your every day modern living but without a car but the best thing is we have no Cops to bother us. The neighbors would always come over to tell us to tune things down at 1:00am instead of have a Patrol boat come out when I had bashes going on with the parents back at home. :D I've mentioned this before on this board but my neighbor up there has 3 Chris Craft woodies that probably knows your brother, his name is Charlie Hoffman that lives in Dover, MA and owns Hoffman Insurance in Wellesley, MA if that rings a bell?

Craig

Digger
03-16-2002, 01:47 PM
names not ringing a bell, my brother might know him. cool stories about Little Bear Isl. we used to have a place on Wingate cove, across from Cow Island when I was a kid. We used to have Alex MacKenzie deliver the mail in "blue ghost"...I would lay down on the diving board and we'd see how fast he could go and me still be able to grab the mail out of the fishing net... :D I think it was either a Century or a Lyman, can't remember. I miss those days.

really looking forward to meeting the Lake Winni crew this summer, if not at AOTH first!

sorry Scott no Mt Dora for my brother.. frown

Steven Cohn
03-16-2002, 10:00 PM
Digger,
WOW! Iknow you and your brother have heard it before, but that is one fantastic looking boat. Scotty defines pristine.
Steven

Digger
03-17-2002, 08:51 AM
Steven, thx much. I drove her once with our "engineer" controlling the throttle. got up to about 60 mph and that was all I was comfortable with, she's a bit of a challenge to steer (actually my brother is comfortable with her, I was just paranoid about flipping it).

My brother will probably come on board here on the registry as soon as he gets the chance...he's a wealth of info from the old boat racing scene (Gold Cup especially) for anyone interested

ClassicRazorback
03-17-2002, 11:07 AM
Thats a cool boat.
I have a 1956 Higgans Sporter with a 312 ford interceptor motor. But it's in very bad shape.
I want to completely rebuild it. I do have all the parts. I also have a 1942 Dodge Carryall (cool old millitary truck).

I really look forward to hearing more about this project of yours!!!

chris

Howe
03-19-2002, 07:21 PM
Thanks for the kind words about SCOTTY and the Packard V12 :) The V12 was never installed in anything and has minimal hours on her (under 50). She is one of the last 200 of that type built (total production run around 13K). I think she was used temporarily as a generator but at full RPM, drinks gas at close to 4 gal. a minute. Buying it was a little crazy but I already have a Packard in SCOTTY and really like the motor. That Packard is more rare and was used only by racers in the 20's and 30's.

My brother and I are talking frequently about what kind of boat would work for the V12. I'm partial to a 40ish footer.

ToonaFish
03-19-2002, 09:55 PM
Welcome aboard Brother!

I'm thinkin an aircraft carrier would be about right for that motor!

Bunches,

Celene 'Project boat? :confused: Aren't they all project boats?'

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
03-21-2002, 09:52 AM
As promised, here are the old patrol craft, still have not found their true history yet, but I will just for fun.

http://www.donzi.net/photos/tuvellship01.jpg

Bryan

Digger
03-21-2002, 12:26 PM
holy cow...the hulls look like PT design. Interesting pic! thx for posting it Bryan!

Steven Cohn
03-21-2002, 01:29 PM
Once again, I agree w/Digger. Interseting picture. Thanks for showing them to us.
Steven

Secret F233
03-21-2002, 02:02 PM
O man those PT's are so great very magical. I would love to go & explore every inch But it looks like it's someones home already (dink in second photo)
Oldfather

Forrest
03-21-2002, 03:02 PM
Ya know Bryan, after looking at those pictures I think I may seen those boats at some time in the past. There is *much* new and old Navy stuff all over the place on those waters to see. Are those PT boats on the Deep Creek Canal near the I-264 bridge?

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
03-21-2002, 03:40 PM
FORREST, when we launched out of Great Bridge during you last visit, those are on the right at the end of the launch no wake, we turn right and open up the Donzi's.

Actually they are on public land, I have never seen anyone over there, good catch on the dingy, I think a dude was fishing from shore that day.

If you want to see them, grab your Donzi and head this way, our home is always open to the Donzi family.
Bryan

bverd
03-21-2002, 04:53 PM
Bryan, that sounds and looks like a fascinating exploration trip. Would love to check them out sometime. Ah... to explore like a kid again. --Brad

Howe
03-21-2002, 06:51 PM
They almost look like "brown water" navy gun boats that date back to the Vietnam war. It would be nice to hear their history. From the looks, they've been outside for quite a while and, whatever their history, have been "rode hard an' put away wet"

Thanks for posting the pics

Digger
03-21-2002, 07:19 PM
Bryan, I need to drag Miss Freedom down your way some time...I've only done the drive about a thousand times (my old girlfriend lived in VA beach), I would like to bring the boat down. where do you launch? I would love to cruise around and check those PT boats out!. There's just something about old airplanes and old boats...they sit there all dilapidated and worn out, faded paint, silent...but to me they seem to sit there and scream "come check me out! I've got a history! I've got a soul!" or maybe I am certifiably out of my mind :D

Digger
03-21-2002, 07:20 PM
By the way, for anyone who missed it, HOWE is my brother!!! welcome to the board Mark!

Howe
03-21-2002, 07:23 PM
Glad to be here :D

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
03-21-2002, 07:42 PM
I would have never expected the response to these old gals, being a 20 year navy officer I will pull some SWO DOG strings tomorrow and have my intel types go back in the archives and see what we will come up with...
We are at war so it may take a few days but rest assured I am on it, I too am curious now...

Sounds like we need a Chesapeake Bay rally...
Maybe we can get Scott B to organizie it too...
I just spoke with Scott, he is working hard on AOTH II...

DIGGER, we launch at the Great bridge Lock.
Bryan

RedDog
03-21-2002, 10:29 PM
Memories are soooo sweet. 1968 or so I saw my first Donzi - was a red 18' that belong to my aunt’s landlord on lake front property of Wilson Lake, AL (Mussel Shoals) - wanted one of the Donzis from that point on. BUT – I also use to explore that lake fishing in a john boat and found a derelict PT boat in the back of one of the coves – got on it once and have always dreamed of having one of those too. I’ve got my Donzi now; do you think a PT Boat will answer my bride’s desire for a cruiser? Why do I ask – of course it would!

Also remember BIG gars being hooked from around the PT – what do you do with a big gar? – Hope that it shakes the hook.

PS – I also remember the owner of the 18 Donzi calling the 16’s “Baby Donzis” like that was the real name. All I have heard since is 16s are “Ski Sporters” or “Sweet 16s” and “Baby’s” are 14s? Best I recall, his 18 had a 289 Ford, red hull, white stripe, white interior, and a wooden knob throttle/shift control with another knob that pushed in/out to disengage the drive.

Secret F233
03-22-2002, 03:09 PM
Awe for real Bryan that would be to cool to find out about there lives!!! & no Digger your not crazy i fell the same way. Hopeful I can get the 233 running in the next few weeks & make it out there my self well wait did you say Chesapeake!! O well Maybe ill just toss the standup in the back seat of the Spyder & roadtrip with my d-cam & wife. Can't forget the wife :rolleyes: ... or can I hummm LOL :D !!
I lived in Fort Myers Beach Fla. for a while & used to go out on the Kaw & look through the old abandoned shripboats man was it cool to think about all the Battles, victory's & losses they have shared with mother ocean & the men that rode them they just have so much character. I used to just lay on the tilted decks & watch the dolphin play for hours dreaming away :cool: !!! What am i doing here.... hummm maybe I could start a shipwreck exploration website & get sponsored by Sony or Olympus or someone anyone to go out & photograph old wrecks & research there story's :D ?!?!?!

Oldfather
St Louis MO

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
03-22-2002, 04:39 PM
I didn't do any research today, BUT I am going to find them via land tomorrow, I am heading over to DMAN2's for coffee and on the way home I plan to 4x4 back those old roads and find them, not sure which old road leads there but the adventure will be fun for sure...

I mentioned in earlier posts I thought they were scrapped for metal, in the photos, they almost look glass and wood in the hulls with definately steel on the superstructure. They have what looks to be 3" gun barrels, which would be a bit large for that class, but who knows.
More soon.
Bryan