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dwginde
11-16-2000, 11:27 AM
I'm considering a Donzi 18 classic with a H&M 427 engine. Can anyone help with the history of this combo. Were they original type engines?
Thanks,dwginde

boldts
11-16-2000, 01:25 PM
DW,
I'll give you the little bit I know about Holman Moody. Back in the 60's, they built engines and designed race cars in many different racing series including NASCAR and GT Road Racing. I have a 69 18' Holman Moody Classic. Nothing like showing Joe Baha my Holman Moody Tachometer and the HM name plate on the Volvo outdrive. I get questions like: "Did Holman Moody really have a part in building your boat?" Unfortunately, I don't have the original engine just some of the HM parts on a stock 302 Ford engine. If you go out to www.yahoo.com (http://www.yahoo.com) and do a search on Holman Moody, you will find their web site along with an option to e-mail them. Don't get your hopes up to much though. I was told that many of the castings for the parts they added to the Donzi are no longer available like the HM exhaust manifolds for my small block Ford. Their shop is located in the Charlotte, NC area. They still do some restores on their old race cars. Does your Donzi have the 427 with a V-Drive? Very rare, but from what I've been told by a friend who had one in his childhood days in FL, very loose when you get it cranking due to the rudder steering. I usually get down to the Charlotte area once a yr. for the Nascar race in May. I'd love to check out HM with someone who had an interest also. http://www.donzi.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

olredalert
11-16-2000, 01:46 PM
You will undoubtly get many more posts that give you more insight into your 2+3 than Ol Red here,but ,with that said,let me ask you first if the boat in question is a v-drive.I assume that it is but you never know.There is a Corsican with the H/M v-drive combo just south of me here on the St Clair river.Dont know the fellow well and dont think hes a member of this august group,but was lucky enough to get a ride a while back.The boat didnt seem to reach its speed potential due(in my humble opinion)to the fact that by design a v-drive pushes the bow of a boat down.With so much of the boat in the water it has no chance to reach the speed of a similar outdrive boat with the same HP. and trim.With that said the boat was alot of fun.Your find is rare and should probobly be treated as such.Restore it as necessary,and enjoy the boat for what it is,a fun peice of history that should appreciate quite nicely while you have fun.

woodsy32
11-16-2000, 02:10 PM
I do not know too much about the boat, but I do know a little bit about Fords... That 427 needs to be identified. There were 4 types of head designs for that motor, low riser (normal), medium riser (semi-perf), high riser (high-perf/rpm) and SOHC (single overhead cam). If I had to venture a guess, it would be for the 427 medium riser sertup. However, this motor has tons of potential. It was the motor that was offered in the infamous 427 SHELBY Cobra. Lots of aftermarket hop up parts for that whole setup. If you need some help identifying the cyl heads, let me know, I probably have an old book lying around somewhere.

Dave

PS: I might even be interested in buying the motor should you be inclined to sell it http://www.donzi.net/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by woodsy32 (edited 11-16-2000).]

Hornetman
11-16-2000, 03:03 PM
Hey DW, That 427 is probably a 390 block. HMM (Holman Moody Marine) supplied power options of 300, 400 and 500 hp, for a few years back in the late 60's. I've got a 1969 Hornet that originally was spec'd at 400 hp with a v-drive set-up, 72C velvet drive tranny, with a Crusader 1:0-1:0 ratio v-drive. The SOHC motor you reference was not a marine option, and is vastly different from the standard 390/427 motor. My engine is a 390 (top oiler vs, side oiler block) originally had 352 truck heads (torque) vs 427 heads. I used 390 interceptor heads on my rebuild. I've got the originall HMM engine manual that came with the boat when new, but don't have it available to me at this moment. Sound like an awesome boat. It is very, very rare. Should you have extra engine/accessory parts to sell(if you buy it and re-power it) I'd be interested in talking to you. Good luck
------------------
Steve A. (Hornetman)

[This message has been edited by Hornetman (edited 11-16-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Hornetman (edited 11-16-2000).]

olredalert
11-16-2000, 05:57 PM
Hornetman,
I might be wrong but I dont see any reference to the famous SOHC engine in the original post.I do know that there were a number of different Holman-Moody marine big block engine choices back in that era.352,390 and 427.I imagine that over the years more than one style of 427 was offered.The earlier member is right about checking which this particular one might be.Of one thing we can be sure,if it does happen to be a SOHC it is one raaaaaare DONZI!...........just.......ol red!

BigGrizzly
11-16-2000, 07:43 PM
John and kathy S. from Az. have a 427 V-Drive corsican I belive it is origional

DonziDave
11-16-2000, 11:51 PM
Greetings from Lake Wylie in Charlotte, NC.
As you all probably know, at one time Holman Moody was a powerhouse in Ford's racing and R&D efforts. During it's heyday H/M had a "blank check" from Ford to "win at any cost" in NASCAR and esp. the GT40 & J car campains.(but Carrol Shelby's version is that he was solely responsible for the GT program - don't you love revisonist history?) At it's height H/M was not only involved in engine development, but also transmissions, rear ends, suspension components, etc. They had 4 dyno rooms set up to run punch tape data for all the US and Euro. tracks. They would build track specific engines/trans and run the races in the dyno rooms with all the shift patterns, torque loads, and throttle demands.(common today, but in the 60's this was pretty wiz-bang stuff)
Unfortunatly after John Holman's death there was no succession plan and effectivly marked the end of H/M. (speaking of revisionist history - Lee Holman was tossed out by his brother well before these programs and played no part) After his death all the H/M inventory was sold at auction, which included several complete new GT40's, J cars, CanAm cars, race ready 427's, marine 427's, 351's, 302's, Volvo drives, etc, etc. Warehouses full of high-buck stuff.
Today all H/M operates is an engine machine shop, cam grinding, etc. I put a H/M "marine grind" cam in my 350 - good low end torque and still clean out to 5000rpm. I had some friends at H/M and had one of their 427's in a Rayson Craft drag boat and a reverse running one in a 22' SuperNova. I would ring them out, they would tear them down to inspect, re-built, and put them back in. Free blueprinted H/M 427's - those were the days!!

ALLAN BROWN
11-17-2000, 09:01 AM
WE ONLY BUILT TWO 427/18' WHILE I WAS THERE. ONE WAS FOR MY RIDING MECHANIC, MARK "BIG DIRTY" RAYMOND. THE OTHER WAS FOR THE SECRET SERVICE AND LBJ. BOTH WERE "REALLY EXCITING" TO DRIVE.

BROWNIE

klink
11-18-2000, 11:07 AM
Bolts, as far as I Know the halman engine was a stock 302 industrial engine with halman moody marine attachments.
Dwginde, find and post as many parts #'s as you can find because FE part interchange, 427 should have cross bolt mains, is it a halman moody intake or a ford intake? look for head # between centre xst ports.
If you havent noticed the 427 generates a lot of excitement in the ford crowd, I read somewhere that they were droped because dead people don't make payments.

olredalert
11-18-2000, 11:53 AM
Brownie,

What speed do you remember those 427 18s going?And,I guess,as an extension of that question,what speed did you guys at DONZI ever see out of an 18ft?There are as many answers on this board to that question as there are members,I know,but your input would be highly valued!............just.........ol red!

dwginde
12-08-2000, 09:56 AM
I have obtained a few pictures from the owner. Unfortunately they are not digital and are "blurry". I'm beginning to think that this is not the original engine. First, it has a Volvo outdrive, not a V-drive and Second has a "Shelby" aftermarket intake. I see no H/M logos anywhere! It is however, a sideoiler!(cross-bolts,screwin plugs,etc)
Actually ,my interest is in the engine for use in my Cobra kit car.I'd probably put a 428CJ engine in the boat and resell it
dwginde

klink
12-09-2000, 07:59 PM
Keep in mind that the 428 is externally ballanced and you can't swap flywheels, if this is a problem maybe a 390GT might swap in easier. If your ever in Ontario with the 427 cobra I'll want a ride.I'll drive pleeeaaase.

Jeff Buckley
12-30-2000, 09:24 AM
I'm getting enlightened here....as I wrote to one of the members: I own one of the HM 427 v-drive 18 2+3's. Motor was blown and had caught fire, thus had been removed. All other mechanicals were there. I have two ford 427 marine engines, thus: no problem. Boat is missing outboard rudder, but once again...no problem. It was origially yellow w/black accents. Was painted over white w/ blue accents.....IT WILL LIVE AGAIN!!!!!! Look foward to this project.

boldts
12-30-2000, 01:33 PM
I don't know much about 427 Ford engines, but I'm glad to read you Donzi owners down in NC and SC are putting boats back together. I have a sister living south of Charlotte and have been on lakes Norman and Wiley many times has I usually bring my Donzi with me during the May Nascar race week. I don't think I'm coming down this year 1. Due to our Lake Cumberland event and 2. Dollars are tight this year. Please send me an e-mail with your phone #, e-mail address. I'd like to be able to meet up with you next time I come to NC with my Donzi.

Scott Boldt

GEOO
12-30-2000, 07:14 PM
I saw a 18 2+3 a few years ago with an original 427 sideoiler & V-drive. I think it was an older full V hull. The owner lives in CT. and runs her in the Lakes. I bumped into him at E&B Marine and the boat was on a trailer.

olredalert, I'm not sure how fast the 427 V-drive went. My guess would be in the low to mid 70's.
My 18 has hit 85+mph and I've heard of one jet drive 18 going 100. GEOO

[This message has been edited by GEOO (edited 12-30-2000).]

Jeff Buckley
12-31-2000, 11:26 AM
We're getting to build one of my sideoilers for this '68 18' V-Drive...It'll be interesting to see how it does perform.

ALLAN BROWN
01-02-2001, 09:03 AM
THE YELLOW AND BLACK 18' THAT WE BUILT FOR THE SECRET SERVICE ON LAKE LBJ WENT 76 MPH IN 1965. IT WAS WILD AS HELL. I LATER MET AN AGENT WHO DROVE IT, WHO LOST HIS RADIO, GUN, ETC. HE SAID THAT, AT WOT, IT WAS THE MOST EXCITING THING HE HAD EVER DONE.

Jeff Buckley
01-02-2001, 05:35 PM
Allan, is it feasible to suggest that my boat...yellow w/black, HM 427 was the aforementioned Secret Service boat? I somewhat doubt it for two reasons...since I prematurely thought it might be V-Drive(mine is) and since according to the Hull ID, etc., it's a '68 or late titled '67?

[This message has been edited by Jeff Buckley (edited 01-02-2001).]

ALLAN BROWN
01-03-2001, 08:05 AM
THE DATES DON'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE. IT PROBABLY WASN'T TITLED UNTIL IT WAS DISPOSED OF BY THE SS. IF MY MEMORY SERVES ME, IT HAD A CASALE V-DRIVE, BUT THAT THOUGHT IS FUZZY. I LEFT DONZI IN OCTOBER '67 TO FOUND NOVA MARINE, SO I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE.

BROWNIE