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View Full Version : Help, Going to Look at a Sweet 16



Dredgeking
03-02-2003, 10:49 PM
I'm going to look at a sweet 16 tomorrow. it's a 1978 with a non-trimmable volvo drive and a 350 chevy crate engine. anything i should look for in a classic donzi? where are the structural problems on this boat? i need a little help. i've never looked at buying an older boat before.

Formula Jr
03-03-2003, 04:19 AM
There's a lot of good info on what to look for ,
but some of it spead around the board. Since your looking at it tomorrow, or today, here is a crash course:

1. Understand the owner. This is THE most important aspect of buying a boat unless you're willing to do a full restore. How many owners has it had, was it run in salt or fresh. Does the owner "know" the history of the boat. Title should b clear with no burdens. Was the boat stored inside. What are the habits of the owner - do they seem like they main tain things.

2. To what degree has the boat been dinked with. Obviously the engine is not original - You need to know if the engine is a marine engine and that all the hardware associated with the engine is also marine. Does the deck have lots of srcew holes in it as things where added and removed. To what degree does it still have original "Bright Work." This being the vents, railings, latches, lights, throttle, etc.

3. What is the condition of the Gas tank. If the tank is leaking its a major job to replace it.

4. What is the state of the interior wood structures, such as the transom, balsa/foam core and stringers. Is the fore deck solid and true to form.

5. Has the boat been painted and has there been any glass repairs.

<small>[ March 03, 2003, 04:22 AM: Message edited by: Formula Jr ]</small>

MOP
03-03-2003, 04:30 AM
Trim is not a big issue on the 16 they ride bow high, I am running a 16 and I use little or no trim most of the time. All of Formula's points are very good, most of the time tapping the stringers, transom and decks will give you an indication of problems. I usualy poke around the drive cut out to see if the transom is getting soft. It can be a jem or turn out to be a horror, me hopes it a jem!

PS you cannot beat the Volvo drive, they are Maytags!

<small>[ March 03, 2003, 04:32 AM: Message edited by: M.O.P. ]</small>

knee deep
03-03-2003, 05:38 AM
I have looked at a lot of boats for a lot of people:
1) Are receipts for work done available? This will give you a good "feel" for how the present owner looks after the boat. It also gives you a service history and you can usually tell a little more about the owner if he has dealt with the same marina over the course of his ownership.

2) Poke, Prod, and Hammer, open all the hatches, is there water or other fluid in the bilge. Gently tug wiring harnesses and hoses to see if they are tight. Even an unexperienced person can use a phenalic hammer to listen for soft spots. Usually around the drive, and possibly at the foremost bulkhead. Look under the dash, is the wiring all bundled and neat.

3) Take a long hard look at the general condition of the boat-is the upholstery ripped, does the boat shine, simple things like does the seat swivel properly, do all the gauges work?

If you are really serious about this boat and it appears to be in sound condition hire a surveyor. It is money well spent and may be required to get insurance due to the age of the boat. Make the seller an offer subject to survey, if he balks run , don't walk. We survey brand new vessels to ensure that all manufacturers defects are covered before warranties expire.

Good Luck and Enjoy!

Dredgeking
03-03-2003, 08:56 AM
the engine is just a crate engine. i doubt it's marine. i assume it needs to be freshened and updated soon. he said it has aluminum heads. it may have been run in some salt/brackish water. i think he is the second owner. the original was his old roommate who's relative owned a local donzi dealership at one time. he represents the appearance of the boat to be good. he did disclose some minor cosmetic issues.

my biggest concerns are structural first, then mechanical.

how do i check for a leaking gas tank?

is the easiest way to find rotten wood by tapping for soft spots? any other hints?

thanks for the help. anyone have a pic of a 1978 sweet 16?

Sam
03-03-2003, 04:29 PM
Dredgeking, where is the boat located in Mich, I might be available to go with you if you like.

Sam

MOP
03-03-2003, 05:10 PM
Your nose should pick out a bad tank, but you should also look thorough the inspection hole with a light for signs of corrosion. As far as the tapping, you may not feel soft spots but you will hear the tapping go from tap tap to thud thud which is a NO NO condition. Not to say that condemns the boat but you have to knock the price way down. Best thing would be to get a real good look and maybe take Sam with you if possible and either decide or report back to the board. Lots of very knowledgeable guys up here.

Dredgeking
03-03-2003, 05:56 PM
just got back from looking at the boat. thanks for the offer sam, but i got it too late.

the boat looks very clean for it's age. i could not find any signs of rot. i tapped around all the stringers, transom and deck that is accessible. the blower vents that have exposed wood were solid. the fuel tank did not appear to be leaking. no real fuel smell other than that of an older boat. the bilges were completely dry. the engine has not been run in 3 years. no battery to check. the engine is the big gamble. the drive is a volvo 270. it was very clean from the outside. my 99 fountain bravo didn't look this clean. the carb should be replaced he said.

looks good from what i can tell.

what would be a high price if the boat has no rot and the engine runs?

how about the low if there is some rot and the engine doesn't run?

thanks for everyone's help.

Formula Jr
03-03-2003, 07:21 PM
You can't ask for a bracket of price. We haven't seen the boat..... could be a high of 6K to a low of $1500. 6K meaning its a clean original boat other than the engine. 1.5K if its a clean boat with deep problems you didn't find. There's nmo easy anwser to evaluating a '70's boat. Like MOP said it could be a Gem and it could be a horror. its up to you to figure out what the boat is worth. From the limited info at hand on, my side, the boat can be valued somewhere at 4500 to 6000. But you haven't sea trialed it, or even started it it up so my numbers are optimisstic. If the boat is sea worthy, try it out. And don't let the season or timing with the seller get in the way. If someone else scoops the boat out with out first looking, its their loss. Its a buyer's market right now.

Dredgeking
03-03-2003, 07:34 PM
thanks jr. the asking price falls into your 4500 to 6000 range.

Gearhead99
03-03-2003, 07:58 PM
Formula Jr,

Not to fault..but "Bright Work" is Varnished wood. Not chrome lights, etc. They are usually called "Hardware".

Just trying to keep you, "A know-it-all".

Dredgeking
03-03-2003, 08:44 PM
the boat has all the original hardware and original gel coat. the interior was re upholstered.

where can i find a service manual for the volvo?

Cuda
03-04-2003, 12:11 AM
How long has the present owner had it?

Dredgeking
03-04-2003, 08:51 AM
i think at least 10 years. the original owner was an old roomate of his, so he's been around the boat almost since 1978. i'm just a bit nervous since the engine last ran 3 years ago. it hasn't been run in 3 years. what kind of trouble can i expect from an engine just sitting?

Dredgeking
03-04-2003, 10:08 AM
i just bought it. i'm excited. it's in better shape than any newer boat i've looked at.

how do i post pics?

BUIZILLA
03-04-2003, 11:15 AM
You bought a boat at 4 in the morning ??? :p

sick pup, sick, sick pup...

but, aren't we all ?? :D

J

Formula Jr
03-04-2003, 11:33 AM
Congradulations! Dredgeking!

Now before you start it up, I'd get a strong battery and remove all the plugs. Sqirt some light weight oil into all the cylinders. Fogging oil works well. Ground the center lead from the distributor and crank the motor over for several minutes after changing the motor oil. You can do a compressioTn test at the same time, all cylinders should be around 160 psi or there abouts and all readings should be within 20% from any high rafing to any low reading. You will want to do this test again later. Hopefully the carb was drained out of gas last time she was put away. Especially the float chamber for the secondaries if its a four barrel. Clean or buy new plugs, gape and/or replace. Put her on the muffs and see how she fires up.

Ahrrr, Gearhead..me understanding of the brightworks incudies her polished hardware...AHRR.. :)

Photos is easy if you have a digital camera and a photo manipulation program on your 'puter. Take your photos, upload them to your 'puter then down size them so they are 72 pixles per inch, and three by four or so inches in dimention. Then follow the photo uploading guidelines in the information section of this site. Keep track of the names of the photos you upload to donzi.net so you can refer to them later.
Chow.

Dredgeking
03-04-2003, 11:41 AM
i will probably have to drain the fuel tank and he did say there is a flat spot in the carb and that he tried to rebuild it a couple times and could not fix it. he recommended a holley 650. it has a 750 on it now. the fogging is a good idea i didn't think of. i'll probably just get a new carb after i see how it runs.

let me get to posting pics. thanks for everyone's input.

Dredgeking
03-04-2003, 11:59 AM
http://www.donzi.net//photos/dk1.jpg

http://www.donzi.net//photos/dk2.jpg

http://www.donzi.net//photos/dk4.jpg

http://www.donzi.net//photos/dk5.jpg

<small>[ March 04, 2003, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: Dredgeking ]</small>

Dredgeking
03-04-2003, 12:02 PM
thanks jr.

knee deep
03-04-2003, 03:04 PM
Congratulations! She sure looks pretty! If you need help with anything do not be afraid to ask or e-mail!

Sam
03-04-2003, 03:46 PM
Dredgeking, where in Mich are you located ?

Sam

Dredgeking
03-04-2003, 04:55 PM
i am from cheboygan, MI, but currently reside between Corpus Christi and Houston in Texas.

Cuda
03-04-2003, 05:09 PM
She's a real beauty. I'd remove the plugs and squirt Marvel Mystery Oil in the cylinders. If it's not too much work, remove the valve covers and squirt them down with MMO also.

Dredgeking
03-04-2003, 05:53 PM
cuda, great idea. i appreciate it.

MOP
03-04-2003, 06:15 PM
Looks darn good, if the motor turns out Ok you I think you have made a home run. Now for the meaty ??? Tell the guys what you had to lay out!

<small>[ March 04, 2003, 06:17 PM: Message edited by: M.O.P. ]</small>

Formula Jr
03-04-2003, 06:45 PM
She is SWEET LOOKING!!!
You lucked out that Pearson didn't find it
before you did - it is after all, Orange! :)
I'd take the whale-tale off, good for 2-3 mph gain, but that's just me. Leave it on, if you're going to do alot of skiing.

Dredgeking
03-04-2003, 08:33 PM
i used to use dol- fins back in the 80's on my outboards. they worked well and i think better than the copies out there. JMO.

guess what i paid. i didn't steal it, but i think i got a good deal.

Dredgeking
03-04-2003, 08:37 PM
i used to use dol- fins back in the 80's on my outboards. they worked well and i think better than the copies out there. JMO.

guess what i paid. i didn't steal it, but i think i got a good deal.

Dredgeking
03-04-2003, 08:39 PM
it was cheaper than a used hot rod jetski.

MOP
03-04-2003, 08:42 PM
Ever trim up with a Dol Fin? I had a buddy that when he tried to trim way up the damn thing made the transom go way down like dive planes.

Formula Jr
03-05-2003, 04:33 PM
Fifty-two hundred?

Dredgeking
03-05-2003, 06:09 PM
jr., are you cheating? that was his asking price. you must be the donzi guru.

Rootsy
03-05-2003, 06:23 PM
hope i am not too much on the late side for this BUT... the first thing i'd do before i even connected a battery to anything would be to drain and replace the oil and filter... Remove the distributor and PRIME the motor... then remove the plugs and oil the cylinders down. after 3 years of sitting that motor has to be just about as dry as a popcorn fart... i might even invest in a bottle of crane cams superlube... you may even consider using a breaker bar to initially see if the motor is free before using the starter... the priming step is WELL WELL worth the time it takes to remove and replace the distributor and sure beats scuffing or worse yet spinning (upon startup) a bearing... just mark the housing (indexed to block) and the rotor (indexed to dist. housing) positions and you can put her right back in the same spot within a few degrees. When you get her running keep an eye out for leaking seals (timing chain cover and rear main seal are most culprit) for they tend to dry and become brittle if not run regularly.

what model carburetor is on the motor now? holley, carter AFB, Rochester???

congratulations on the new ride and welcome to the 16 club :D

Formula Jr
03-05-2003, 07:07 PM
The real gurus are, MOP, Big Griz, Madpoodle, Brownie, Rootsy, Geoo, Forrest, Pearson, Lenny and several others.. I'm just along for the ride...

Dredgeking
03-05-2003, 07:13 PM
it has a holley 750 carb now. i have a buddy who wants to try and tune it before we replace it.

do they sell tools you can use to prelube? my buddy made a tool from an old distributor.

thanks for the info rootsy.

BigGrizzly
03-05-2003, 07:19 PM
I would do what Rootsy says but I woulf turn it 1/4 turn and do this 5 times and everything gets oil. Now get rif of the Dole fin and put the rod in the middle. the thing is noise light because of the prop which looks like an Volvo Ultra prop --this is a good thing. now test rife and get back to us,

Dredgeking
03-05-2003, 08:11 PM
i'll give it a try big griz. the biggest pisser of all is i have to go to houston this weekend and can't break these plans. i just get a new toy and i can't play with it. DAMN!

Donzi Dreaming
03-05-2003, 10:19 PM
I know Moroso makes the primer tool, there are several other companies that also make them.

Oil Pump Primer (http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=27022)

MOP
03-06-2003, 08:47 AM
As usual all very good advice, But I want to add instead of a breaker bar use a torque wrench set to the max torque of the crank bolt. If it won't move don't panic, pull the starter and use a bar to lever it loose. I have seen it happen to many times that the bolt gets striped. After all this time I would bet the rings are pretty hard stuck, once it move put the starter back in. As the guys said prime it and using a remote start button tap it over a little at a time. I know all the guys are giving you a thumbs up! Good Luck and happy Donzi Daze!

Dredgeking
03-06-2003, 08:52 AM
can i prime it using the remote start button. i have one of those. i was thinking of using that, but didn't know if it would circulate enough oil.

Rootsy
03-06-2003, 09:34 AM
you need to prime the motor while not turning it over. you are driving the oil pump independently of the motor, building oil pressure and oiling components...

before i got wise years ago and cut a distributor off to use as a primer i used a screwdriver in my drill - not the easiest thing to do.. the SBC has a slotted oil pump driveshaft.

The remote starter button makes it very convenient to be in the engine compartment while tapping it over also... good point phil.

MOP
03-06-2003, 04:44 PM
One of my guys gave me a new tilt, says use a battery drill, says as soon as pressure builds the drill slows down then start to bump it a little at a time.