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Formula Jr
09-19-2001, 06:48 PM
Classic

Donzi dingy 10' (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell500.jpg)(73)

Baby Donzi 14' (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell502.jpg) (67)
Sister Ship F-14
Total Production 23. Most were distroyed.

16 Sport/Ski (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell504.jpg) (64-80) (89-Present)
16 Vee Drive
16 2+2 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell505.jpg) (90-Present)
16 O/B (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell599.jpg) (65-74)
'71-'74 Storage Compartments Right Hand. '65-69-? Left Hand
16 jetdrive (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell506.jpg)(69)

The Classic 18s
2+3 (18) (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell507.jpg) (65-present)
2+3 (18) v drive (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell511.jpg)
2+3 (18) jet drive (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell509.jpg)
Three Hatch Sharp Keel 18 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell662.jpg) (66) Rare
Bench Seat (18) (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell030.jpg)
Rare. Only Available in Canada.

Corsican (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell595.jpg) (69-71)
Corsican v drive(69)
Total Production 57

X-18 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell510.jpg) (73-79)
X-18 v drive
X-18 arneson (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell512.jpg)
X-18 jet drive
X-18 blackhawk (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell594.jpg)
Total Production 155.

Hornet Series
Hornet 19' (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell514.jpg) (64-76)
St Tropez Sister Ship
Hornet v drive(69)
Hornet Benchseat (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell516.jpg)(69)
Hornet Benchseat v drive (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell007.jpg)(69)
Hornet II 20' (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell518.jpg) (77-82)
Hornet III 21' (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell519.jpg) (83-87)

Classic 22 Series
Classic 22 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell520.jpg) (81-Present)
Classis 22 Scorpion Ed (00)
Classic 22 Special Edition (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell521.jpg) (01-)
Classic 22 Vee Drive

Donzi 18 Red Head (Testarossa)
Donzi 22 Red Head (Testarossa) (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell524.jpg)
Total Production 17

Blackhawk (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell522.jpg) (95-97)
End Run Boats are 22 Classics with 502s, Bravo Is and Blackhawk detailing.
Total Production 40.

Criterion (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell523.jpg) (78-81)
Criterion SS (82-85) (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell659.jpg)
Manual Hatch and Hydraulic Hatch
Criterion II (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell622.jpg) (79-80)
Total Production All Versions 29



Minx 20 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell525.jpg) (86-88)

The Classic 24s
Doral 24 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell517.jpg) (74-76)
Spitfire 24 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell526.jpg) (76-77)
Spirit 24 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell621.jpg) (76-77)
24 Lightening (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell597.jpg)

Seven Meter (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell527.jpg) (69-72)
Seven Meter twin V-drives(69)
Seven Meter twin outdives (69)
28 Sportsman (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell529.jpg) (65-)
28 Sportsman inboard (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell530.jpg)

Black Widow 24 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell531.jpg) (90-92)
Black Widow 30 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell532.jpg) (89-92)


non step 28ZX (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell533.jpg)(96)

Firefox 25 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell652.jpg)
Firefox 29 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell534.jpg)

Crossbow 33 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell536.jpg) (87-90)

GT 21 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell539.jpg) (69-80)
GT 21 Twin (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell658.jpg)(69)
GT 21 V-drive (69)
Monza (GT?) (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell573.jpg) (71)

Classic Z Boats
Z 21 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell617.jpg) (87-88)
Z 21 ZB (Bow Rider) (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell542.jpg) (87-88)
Z-24 (91-93)
Z 25 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell545.jpg) (86-89)
Z 28 (91-93)
Z-28 RB (91-93)
Z 29 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell620.jpg) (86-88)
Z 30 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell546.jpg) (90-92)
Z 33 O/S (86-87)
Z 33 RB (91)
Z 33 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell655.jpg) (91)
ZI 33 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell548.jpg)


Stepped Sportboats

22 ZX (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell550.jpg) (97-01)
22 ZX Daytona (98-00)
22 ZX Scorpion Ed (00)
25 ZX (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell551.jpg) (94-98)
26 ZX (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell552.jpg) (99-01)
26 ZX Daytona (99-01)
26 ZXI (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell657.jpg)
PowerBoat Mag's Best Powerboat 1999.
27 ZX (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell553.jpg) (94-97)
28 ZX (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell612.jpg) (99-01)
28 ZXO (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell611.jpg)
28 ZX Scorpion (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell598.jpg)
33 ZX (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell554.jpg) (94-01)
33 ZX Daytona (98-00)
33 ZX Poker Run Ed (00)
38F-2 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell549.jpg)
38 ZX (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell596.jpg) (95-01)
Daytona 38 ZX (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell555.jpg)
39 ZSC (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell556.jpg) (01)
45 ZX (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell557.jpg)


Fishing

F 14 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell558.jpg) (67) >10 made.
F 18 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell559.jpg)
St Tropez 19 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell560.jpg) (64-76)
F-19 CC (91)
F 22 (79-80)
F 23 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell562.jpg)
F-23 CC (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell660.jpg)(91)
Sprit 24 (74)
F 24 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell650.jpg)
24 El Pescador (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell564.jpg) (76)
25 New El Pescador (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell661.jpg) (89)
F 33 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell565.jpg) (87-92)
F 35 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell653.jpg)

All 1990 F boats had optional Engine Brackets (Transom Extensions)
Walkaround F-21 (90-91)
F-21 Center Console (90)
Walkaround F-23
Walkaround F-25 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell651.jpg) (90-91)
F-25 Center Console (90)
In this context is CC, Center Console or Cuddy Cabin?


Stepped Fishing

22 ZF
23 ZF (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell515.jpg) (87-01)
23 ZF Daytona (00)
26 ZF
28 ZF (99-00)
28 ZF Daytona (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell614.jpg) (98-00)
29 ZF (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell569.jpg)
30 ZF (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell570.jpg) (99-01)
30 ZF Daytona (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell613.jpg)
30 ZF Cuddy (99-00)
32 ZF (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell571.jpg) (00)
Z 3250 Express Fish (99-00)
35 ZF (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell610.jpg) (99-00)
35 ZF Daytona (00)
35 ZFC (CUDDY) (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell572.jpg) (00)


Conventional


New GTs
GT 180 (90)
GT 180 BR (Bow Rider) (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell538.jpg) (90)
GT 190 BR (90)
GT 210 Cuddy (90)
GT 210 BR (90)
GT 230 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell540.jpg) (90)
GT 250 (90)

DL 180 BR (90)
DL 210 BR (90)
DL 210 Cuddy (90)
DL 230 (90)


Model 192 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell575.jpg)
Medallion 152 PWC Jet (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell576.jpg) (94-96)

1997 Medallions were called XL Medallions
Medallion 185 Bow Rider (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell577.jpg) (94-97)
Medallion 21 XL (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell578.jpg) (94-97)
Medallion 275 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell625.jpg) (94-97)

Levante 30 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell579.jpg) (90)

LX Series. LXR = Bowrider, LXC = Cuddy otherwise same boats.
19 LXR (98)
21 LXC (98)
21 LXR (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell601.jpg) (98)
Z 3250 Express 33' (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell580.jpg) (98)

255 LXC 26'5" (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell581.jpg) (94-98)
275 LXC (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell582.jpg) (94-98)
3250 LXC (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell583.jpg) (95-98)
3250 Daytona - way cool!!!!!

Regazza Series
Regazza 17
Regazza 17 BR (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell654.jpg) (88-89)
Regazza 19
Regazza 19 BR (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell584.jpg) (88-89)
Regazza 21 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell585.jpg) (88-89)
Regazza 21 BR
Regazza FC 23 (87)
Regazza 23 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell586.jpg) (88-89)
Regazza 25 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell587.jpg) (88-89)

New Z Boats
Z 20 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell602.jpg) (99-01)
Z 22 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell543.jpg) (99-01)
Z 22 ZB (Bow Rider) (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell544.jpg) (99-01)
Z 255 (99)
Z 275 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell663.jpg) (99-00)

Deck

Sport Deck 23 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell588.jpg) (97-01)
Sport Deck 28 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell656.jpg)


Donzi By Roscioli

Sportfish R54 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell589.jpg)
Sportfish R65 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell590.jpg) (86-88)
Sportfish R72 (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell591.jpg)
Sportfish R80

Chronology:
Aronow 64-Mid 66
Teleflex 66-85
Genth 85-88
OMC 88-94
Hall????
American Holdings 95- Present

Thanks for all the e-mails so far.

mailto:owen@epud.netowen@epud.net</A>

Scott Pearson
09-19-2001, 09:44 PM
Formula,
Wrong years on the Criterion II. Its not 84-85. It should be 79-80. Mine was a 80.

(NJ)Scott

Formula Jr
09-19-2001, 10:27 PM
Thanks Scott P. I'm hoping the NADA guides were somewhere close, but I guess not.
GIGO.

Formula Jr
09-20-2001, 11:41 PM
The more I look at this list, the more I wonder why Donzi does'nt make an 18 bench or a 22 bench. Both would be instant Classics. 502's with B III's. Papered 75 MPH with each sale. Donzi. Are you up to what we want? Why you never thought of an 18 bench is ticking away............A Canadian wants one!!!!!! I Want one (22). Clean Lines, no graphics. No flash. Just "I can beat anything" performance.

Scott Pearson
09-21-2001, 02:34 PM
Formula,
There is one in the works as we speak...Not by Donzi...But it is a Donzi.

Ahhhh...THE POWER OF FIBERGLASS!


(NJ)Scott

Moody Blu'
09-21-2001, 05:18 PM
HEy thats a nice hood scoop on that testarosa! :D

Desert Fox
09-21-2001, 09:43 PM
I believe the 16' outboard was mfg'd 1971-1974

lou
09-22-2001, 07:25 AM
My outboard is a 65 and I have seen two 67's and one 69 all have the steering on the left and all before 1971 have no storage compartments on the back. This ad is from Popular Mechanics Jan of 1969
http://www.4u2buy.com/donzi/OB1.jpg

Formula Jr
09-28-2001, 06:22 PM
Is there any difference between the ('90s) New Conventional GTs and the DLs. I don't think I've ever seen anything refered to as a DL model Donzi. Some of the new listings maybe bogus since they were pulled from the notoriously incorrect NADA List.

oldLenny
09-28-2001, 09:28 PM
I've seen one of those aftermarket X-18
"Bench Boats". :rolleyes:
http://www.donzi.net/photos/Lenny3.jpg

BIG BAD DONZI
09-28-2001, 10:37 PM
Formula Jr., believe me, Don was out of Donzi by Mid 66 as he had already purchased the last SE waterfront parcel on the canel on 188th Street. Construction on the Magnum factory began in May/June of 66.

BIG BAD DONZI
09-28-2001, 10:45 PM
Lou, don't remember any factory produced Donzi 16', 18' or 19' outboards in 64, 65-mid 66.

BigGrizzly
09-29-2001, 07:20 PM
JR I have all the origonal Criterion brochures in cluding the extra one I'm giving the Mad Poodle (since one of our board members bid against him for one) and I don't see a Criterion III. There is the Criterion (like mine) the SS like ED Donlley has and the Criterion ( Scott had). There were two SS' s thoe one with a hydraulic Front hatch and one with a manual front hatch

Randy

Formula Jr
09-29-2001, 10:41 PM
Thanks Randy. The SS is now linked to Ed's Photo. Are the posted years correct and any idea on production numbers? Odd how the SS doesn't have a walk thru wind shield.

boldts
09-29-2001, 11:25 PM
Formula Jr.,

Just received a copy of the 1969 Donzi catalog and I thought I'd let you know what is in it.
1. The 16' & 18' Classics
2. A 18' Corsican
3. A 19' Bench Hornet w/ V-drive available
4. A 21' GT w/Twins & V-drive available
5. A Seven Meter 23 w/ Single or Twins available.


Hope this helps you with some of the model years. I noticed that some of the list didn't have these models as being that old. I have to thank Classic Razorback for the copy I have. My wife and I have really enjoyed seeing the Donzi models available back in 69 when ours was built. :)

Formula Jr
09-30-2001, 12:10 AM
Thanks Scott, thats exactly the kind of info I'm looking for.
Do any of the pics show an overhead pic of a guy and his wife in an 18, he (Ed) has dark sunglasses and is smoking a cigar at WOT, she (Marty) is wearing a funny hat? They were in one of the flyers around that time.
Wow, a Vee-drive GT in 69!
Scan that puppy and send it to Mr. Scot V. The Harbormaster hasn't e-mailed me the account info for the HTML pages yet.....but I'm not going to bug him about it. ;)

Shanghied Again
09-30-2001, 08:18 AM
Owen, I am working on my sons boat, Like Scott Not a Donzi but will be a Donzi. The only 13teen that will wear the name. The Bullet hull has the lines now it needs the name.
In the Line up you should make a category for the Raceboats, Starting with the first all the way till now Damn Donzi a 27 ZX.
Just my thought?

Formula Jr
09-30-2001, 03:17 PM
Frank, a neat idea but....
What constitutes a race boat?
The 16 was never "raced" as far as I know - The Jr however is a copy of a race boat.
nor the 18
The Hornet was of coarse
as was the 28 Sportsman (Donzi Baby)- the hull being the bed for 007 and 008.
I think the Seven Meter was raced, but not sure.
The 35 became a Magnum as were all the Donzi-Magnum race boats. Where do you make the cut?
My ignorance in this area is complete and I have no sources for the post-Teleflex donzi racing boats. Start a new thread. It would be interesting to know.

David O
09-30-2001, 03:36 PM
LEN
I noticed the two X-18's you are using to show a bench seat 18 is CHI CHI and my 1973. I guess that means Gene S and I get the first two decks off the production line, correct?
Sure would be nice if the deck could be built as easy as it is to airbrush photos.
I LIKE THE LOOKS OF A BENCH SEAT VERSION.
But now that we have a Donzi Girls site I am hoping I will need all the seats available. For the models

Formula Jr
09-30-2001, 03:49 PM
Well..... That sure explains the 28 Sportdeck! :D

Shanghied Again
09-30-2001, 05:48 PM
Owen 1965 DONZI 28 Bill Wishnick (Broad Jumper).
1965 DONZI 28 Jim Wynne, (Donzi Doozy)
1965 DONZI 28,Don Arownow (007)
1966 DONZI 28 Don Aronow (008)
1966 DONZI 28 Bobby Rauthbord (Patty Lou)
1967 MAGNUM/DONZI Don Aronow(Maltese Magnum)
1967 MAGNUM DONZI Bill Sirois(Old Yellar 11)
1967 Donzi 28 Allan Brown (Donzi Baby)
1997 Donzi 27 ZX John Wooley (Damn Donzi)
Damn Donzi F -66 was an A boat before with a traggeic accident. There was a couple of more before Damn Donzi but I would have to sit down and do some home work..

RickR
09-30-2001, 07:31 PM
Owen
I have a 1990 Portfolio if you need info.

Boats not on your list;

There was a Z-30 that year. Similar to Vagrants but has 3 round portholes on the sides and one large one in the kiddle of the deck.

F-21 CC
F-21Walkaround

F-23 Walkaround

F-25 CC
F-25 Walkaround

BigGrizzly
09-30-2001, 09:45 PM
Jr. Allan M told me there were less than 29 of all three types combined. I have located a total of only *.

Randy

BIG BAD DONZI
09-30-2001, 11:59 PM
If a race boat that had the name MAGNUM/DONZI or DONZI/MAGUM on its hull it was never a Donzi. These boats were all prototype Magunms being race tested.

Formula Jr
10-01-2001, 02:44 AM
Thanks, Rick, Frank, Randy and Michael.
Rick, I had those boats but I do need Pics. Thanks for the confirmation. The (90) Z-30 you speak of is so close to a Black Widow 30 that I had it under that boat. Its now moved to the classic Z boat section. Everytime I think I have a handle on the names, donzi does something like altering the entire line and then calling them the same thing as the old line - it's hard to track them as the same boats. I might have to bracket the models according to years built.
Frank, start a new topic on the History of Donzi Race Boats. Its too problematic for me to list these as I would not know how to define what a valid race boat is. Which races count? I don't know enough about the various classes. In my mind a race boat is a small production, single purpose design that may or may not become a production "like" boat with the same name - kinda like Nascar. But then again we now have F Classes like Stock Car racing. How wide is the definition? Somewhere out there, there may be group of Donzi 10 foot dingy racers - limited to 40 HP of coarse.
Randy, I'll take your * as having found 8 total.
Michael, as usual, you are absolutely right, all Magnum/Donzis were Magnums. Can you shed light on which of the orginal Donzis were actually "designed" as race boats before production boats. I believe the Hornet Bench and the Open Outboard 19 (St Tropez) were designed as race boats first. But not the 16 or 18. Teleflex seemed perfectly comfortable letting Don build and use the Donzi name on his Magnums, so I don't know when Donzi as a company restarted building their own race boats. They probably knew they couldn't beat Don's Cigarettes anyway. Donzi doesn't seem to have made any production boats large enough to be race boats till Genth bought the company.

BIG BAD DONZI
10-01-2001, 10:09 AM
Formula Jr., When I get some time this week, I'll look through the files and bring you up to date. Got to tell you though, don not forget that although the 16' wasn't designed as a race boat at Donzi Marine, she was a derivation from Jim Wynne's Wyn Mill and Wyn Mill II and I remember Freddie Darwick running a 16' in a St. Pete race and maybe in a couple of Orange Bowl events as well. I'll check the details.

CDMA
10-01-2001, 10:21 AM
Owen,

I could be wrong but I think the "monza donzi" you have listed is actually a donzi rip off. When I was first searching for my 18 I found a boat similar to that and did some research. As far as I could tell Monza was a sperate company...

Chris

Formula Jr
10-01-2001, 04:25 PM
Chris, I thought that boat was interesting since it was listed as a '70 Donzi with Monza in quotes - I think the seller was saying it was like a Monza. But in the full ad, which I lost in a computer crash, the seller restated it as a DONZI, Model MONZA. At the time of entering it, I thought all GTs started in '71, so I figured it might be a pre GT called Monza. There was an itty bitty memory of Donzi Monza models lodged in my insect brain - whats left of it- so this was something I had to seperate from the pack. I know now the GTs started at least in '69. So It appears to be a '70 GT 21. I'll probably put it under the GT page later. Thanks for pointing this out. Every little bit helps.
Big Bad Donzi, if anyone can fill the gaps here it would be you. But I think Frank really should start another thread since what defines a race boat is too wide.
I mean, if a privateer shoehorned some big engines in a Seven Meter, slapped a number on the side and went racing, does that make the Seven Meter a Racing Boat?
It has to be more narrowly defined than that. In the old days it was "Race what you Brought" kinda racing. Not the well defined class structure we have now.

lou
10-01-2001, 06:42 PM
BIG BAD DONZI my 1965 16 outboard belonged to Gerry Walin he was the first owner, I also have a money clip with the starflight IV that was given to him by Evinrude for setting a speed record. It was one of the first Donzis built.

Formula Jr
10-01-2001, 07:24 PM
Also Guys, please just include links to photos. I have to go back and forth to tweak info with each little tib bit and even a small photo jams up my reload times for editiing.

BIG BAD DONZI
10-01-2001, 09:34 PM
Lou, if Gerry is still around, ask him if he had the transom cumtomized hinself in order to make it outboard compatible. Production Donzi 16s did not leave the factory that way in 65. What outboard speed record does the clip refer to? (Mercs have ruled as long as I can remember)

Formula Jr
10-01-2001, 10:28 PM
I've never stated the rules for the List, cause i guess I have to think them up. I want to include innovative stuff like the Blackhawk 18 and Geoo's boat - both never factory boats. There were so many one-offs that I want to just include them as part of the series with side note. Even if the boat was altered, I'm going to place it in its time frame. An OB 16 makes sense in that time frame, Don knew that, cause he switched to OBs briefly as lighter, faster designs.

BigGrizzly
10-01-2001, 11:45 PM
Jr the 16-in its day was only rated 135 hp and was supposed to be 1000lbs dry no motor. it really tipped the scales at 1345 dry. they were not faster than the V8 16 unless the motor was modified. I never saw one, Personally, untill after Don left Donzi. Remember the in 1966 the 2 barrel V8 was 165 hp, after that the HP went up by leaps. in 1970 the base HP was 210with a 2 barrel and up to 290HP with the H&M. I have seen both left and right hand drive models.

Randy

Formula Jr
10-02-2001, 12:26 AM
Cool.

lou
10-02-2001, 06:58 AM
Big Bad Donzi: The boat was made this way by Donzi, Walin was a Donzi & Evinrude Dealer up north and sold both inboards and outboards. Don knew him very well. This was Gerry's personal boat He put a 135 hp Evinrude Starflite motor on it. Brownie said that Gerry died in an accident, I purchased the boat in 1976 when I worked for Bertam in Miami.

Owen: I will take pictures of the actual boat when I get back to Florida, Here is your Link;
http://www.4u2buy.com/donzi/WALIN.jpg

Randy: Any motorcycle racer will tell you that two strokes rule, it is just a better design for racing , they run cooler and have unbeatable torque and horsepower with a minimal amount of weight. The only thing that holds back the speed on outboards today is that they factor economy and emissions into the mix. There are also a lot more aftermarket race parts for the inboards so it makes them a better choice for racing. But keep in mind that after all these engines were designed for cars not boats, they are just modified to function in boats.

BigGrizzly
10-02-2001, 08:23 PM
Lou, I have been racing motorcycles for over 35 years. I own the only motorcycle to Qualify at the Daytona 200, 10 years in a row, and it is a four stroke. Last year the 600cc super sport race winner beet Kenny Robberts lap rechord by 11.7 seconds. Kenny set it with a TZ750, then with a special 260 pound factory -one off 500cc. Now Honda is Challanging the wold of motocross with a four stroke. Our Watercraft models have four strokes one is turbocharged. Any current motorcycle racer will tell you two strokes are dead. the primere race at Daytona is the SuperBike race and there hasn't been a twostroke in it since 1982. They only use them in motocross and some soon to be deleted european pro races. BTW I work for a major motor cycle company.

Randy

Formula Jr
10-02-2001, 10:10 PM
The ow69 scarred the %^$R out of everyone - including King Kenny who said the bike was essentally uncontrollable. They went to four strokes not because they made more HP, they made more controllable HP. And then went to the big bang bikes because they side out the rearend in a more predictable manner. But you know all that........

BIG BAD DONZI
10-02-2001, 10:27 PM
Lou, that was a hell of an achievement by Gerry hitting those speeds back in the 60's. That Evinrude ad is great and your clip is a true piece of history.
Still do not recall any outboard 16s being produced in 65 but Don did special things for his friends and this might have been one of those. All the Best

lou
10-02-2001, 11:26 PM
Randy
Two strokes are only "dead" because of the emissions and economy standards that have been set world wide. The design with its simplicity is still far superior to four strokes. Imagine where they would be today if the technology that has made four stroke engines what they are now would have been applied to two strokes. Any engineer would agree that in any moving mechanical design less moving parts equals less friction & better reliability. The decision to use four stroke engines was not as much by choice as it was by necessity. Most manufacturers already had four stroke engines that could be made to comply so they used them instead of re-tooling or designing from scratch. Not to mention the enormous cost of creating a completely new design. If you wait long enough you will see that electric motors will be the "death" of four strokes, and they have been around before any gas engine. Up until now no one had the incentive to develop this technology. Necessity is the mother of invention but economy dictates its course.

BigGrizzly
10-03-2001, 11:35 AM
Sorry Lou your Wrong I' not talking about street machines, but race bikes. This is what I did for a living befor I got a job with benifits. I am the engineer your talking about. the TZ750 that Yamaha built was 134 Hp at the crank with a water cooled block. that is a 750 cc engine tyhat was built to race only. Todays 600cc production bikes turn in the the numbers of 150 to 160 hp at the crank. The numbers don't lie. sincethe two stroke fires every stroke it should have twice the power however no one has ever acheived it. This is fact niot fiction

Randy

Looped
10-03-2001, 12:08 PM
BigGrizzly,
Your right about the 4-strokes coming around. A friend of mine just picked up a YZ426:
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products/mcy/250/02yz426f_blu_1-01.jpg

He bought it to toy around with in his backyard and I’ll tell you they don’t sound very mean because of the 4-stroke snort like sound but they do fly. Just a few years back they seem to be the dog of the track but now the 2-strokers are just jealous of them and don’t even want to compete against them.

Craig

BigGrizzly
10-03-2001, 04:00 PM
That particular one will kick the snott out of the 400 mx in everway. and it is lighter by 8 pounds.

Randy

Tito
10-03-2001, 04:26 PM
BIG GRIZZLY I Know Lou and I have seen his 16 outboard run. I have been wrenching on boats since I worked for River Marine in 63, and he may be too modest to tell you, but his donzi outboard blew my 1970 H&M Donzi 16 away. My boat did an honest (and scary) 65 on my gps. His boat has an evinrude V-4 135 that is a factory race motor it has four exhaust pipes the size of softball bats and only a two bladed prop. It sounds like an airplane and it SCREAMS! What ever has been done on that motor is working right. I also was a non believer. He also owns a wicked 45zx and has a SH*T load of toys.

Formula Jr
10-03-2001, 05:01 PM
Lou, I don't see your rig in the registry. It would be an awesome pic with the open pipes and you could write in the history.

lou
10-03-2001, 07:01 PM
Tito ; Thanks for your comment but lets end this conversation here as it has nothing to do with Owens' original post and it is not getting us anywhere.

Owen; I have been meaning to for awhile but have just not done it. I have had that boat since 76 and I am so familiar with it that I sometimes take it for granted. I am in Chicago and will take and post detailed pictures when I get back to Florida in December . It is just like any other 16 but outboard with a real interesting motor from the mid 60's.

Formula Jr
10-03-2001, 07:49 PM
You guys go right ahead with the two stroke/ four stroke debate, I'll be starting another clean
LIST thread in the near future and leave this one here. But Guys, PLEASE start
independent threads earily on if the subject goes to far off topic. And remember, use links to pics. Sure wish Scot would send out the FTP address so I can practice some. :)

seano
11-29-2001, 11:28 AM
Just thought I'd bring this one back to the top...I find this list most helpful!

BTW, Ther looks to be a 1980 Criterion for sale on Boat Trader...here's the link
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/2/0/16692720.htm

ALLAN BROWN
11-29-2001, 02:02 PM
I left Donzi on Halloween, 1967, and until then, we had not built any stinkin' outboard 16's. It was a product of the Chisholm brothers after the recession of 1970. Jr., your time table is a little off. Aronow, 64 up to April 65. Teleflex, April 65 to Halloween 67. Chisholm brothers, Halloween 67 to Genth.