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Formula Jr
01-15-2002, 01:23 AM
I'm working on the descriptive texts for the donzi list. This is everything I could cobble together from previous posts. Feel free to add and/or correct.

About the Ski Sporter.

With the retirement of the Boston Whaler 13, the Donzi 16 is one of the oldest fiberglass powerboat designs still in production.

The very first production boat to wear the Donzi name was a little 16 foot runabout called the Ski Sporter. Its design layout, was based on an earlier wooden racing boat known as the 17 foot Wyn-Mil II. The Wyn-Mill II was later developed in to a production boat all on its own called the Formula Jr two years after the introduction of the 16. Although the Formula Jr and the 16 are very simular in design, they do not share any dimentions and should be consided completely different boats, derived from completely different proto-types. Designed by Jim Wynne and Walt Walters, the Ski Sporter was introduced in 1964. All pre OMC boats have a distinctive wrap around passenger seating arrangment. The newer two plus two seating arrangement boats introduced in '92, are refered to as the Sweet 16s or 16 2+2. I can find no official reference to any Wrap-a-round 16 being refered to as a "Sweet" 16. The Wrap around seating models are great for the boat's intended mission, that being a combination sport boat and ski boat, allowing a lookout passenger a view to the stern in a semi reclining position. Rough water pilots will quickly find their passengers complaining of neck and back aches as the side style seating arrangement is very hard on the body. Very early models came with Eaton C drives, which were soon replaced by Volvo Aquamatics in 65. Pre 66 boats only have two engine vents and a rather non-nautical looking register vent in the base of the rear seat . The battery in these early models was directly behind, to the portside of, this vent. By '66 all had four engine vents. Many of the early, 64 to 65, 16s were updated to H/M Ford small blocks and Volvo Drives.

There is alot of speculation on what defines a "barrel back" but this argument is specious as there are NO fiberglass Barrel Backs: The term simply does not apply to glass boats.

All 16s, to this day, have a hook build in to the hulls that help the boats plane and is consistent with the skiing aspect of the design. Early, standard 110 Hp. Volvo powered boats did'nt exceed 43 MPH. Speeds over 57 MPH are effected by this hook.

Performance 16's, had Holmer and Moody Small Block Ford V8s, and H/M badged Drives.
Holmer and Moody were slow to use a newer form of engine to drive coupling and therefore many of these early boats have a slight build out in the rear seats for clearance which was compensated by the Built-Rite interiors.


You will notice that there is a break in the production of the 16. This occured while OMC owned Donzi and was designing a new line of small run-abouts to replace the 16 and the 18. Fortunately OMC changed their minds and these later became the Fourwinds Unlimited U-17 and U-19 boats. Also during the OMC era there were boats refered to as Donzi By Chris-Craft. Chris-Craft was one of the other many companies held by OMC at the time. In 1966, the well respected Canadian builder Shepherd, took out a license to build 16's and 18's.
The 16, 18, GT 21 are the most copied of the Donzis and one should be careful to check out any of these boat's histories. Non-licensed copies include Legend, Monza, Viper, Sterling, StarCraft and Cobalt - though the Cobalt was a well made boat. Pre-1974 boats can be identified by either a foil SN in the engine compartment, A metal dog tag SN glassed into the Port inner rear topside (72), or magic marker notes written on the Starboard backside of the console.

Having such a long production run, the 16's are a diverse lot.

They came with:
Eaton Drives
Volvo-Penta Drives
Out board, right hand and left hand helms (at least one, "one off" in '65)
Merc Type 1s
OMC drives
Merc Alpha and Alpha IIs
Berkeley Jet drives
Vee Drives.
And a few experimental Vee Drive powered, jet drives.

Power was also diverse.
Ford Marine Interceptors
Volvo Penta
Chrysler
Chris-Craft
recent yanmar
And various Merc Engines.

Early Gel-coat Colors were.

White
Yellow
Grumple Green
And Red.

Current models are standard with two barrel Merc 4.3 engines and Alpha IIs


66' 16 Specs
Lenght 16' 7 1/2"
Beam 7'
Weight 1500
Fuel 25 Gals, optional 40 gal.
Speed 40.6 with 110 Volvo Aquamatic

ALLAN BROWN
01-15-2002, 07:28 AM
FJ'

You left Holman Moody out of the power list. All the original 16's were white, with stripes and upholstery in: Lucan red ( named after John Bingham, the 9th Earl of Lucan), Christina Blue, Lucan's sister-in-law, and wife of Billy Shand-Kidd, Princess Di's uncle, or Grumble Green, named after the Shand-kidd's dog.

green16
01-15-2002, 02:56 PM
You accidently misspelled Grumble Green as Grumple Green.
This is excellent Jr. Thanks
green16

Tony
01-15-2002, 03:03 PM
My '67 has two vents and the "non-nautical" looking vent below the rear seat. So maybe just change "Pre '66" to "Pre '67" in that sentence. Or is that being too picky?

Anyway...great narrative, Formula, you are AWESOME!

mattyboy
01-15-2002, 07:46 PM
thanx Jr this is great info,
Tony I have a 68 with 2 vents and the "Air conditioner vent" in the seat the best estimate is that mine was a left over hull completed and sold in 68. or so I've been told.but that is great work JR any help I could be drop me a line.
also I recall reading in a boat magazine during the lull in production of the 16 with omc when the reintroduced it the labled it the Sweet 16 and had a red vette towing it this was early to mid 90's iI believe, but that's a long time ago

Matt

Gearhead99
01-15-2002, 08:03 PM
When I had a 1965 it had four vents and the A/C vent in front of the battery. Someone had added two more vents on the hatch cover too.

It had a Eaton drive and Holman Moody 289. Later changed to a Holman Moody drive [volvo].

Also, had Stainless Steel vent plate behind the rear lift ring with aft facing stern light and louvers. The bilge blower was attached to it.

Boat, had to much "hook". Couldn't get it past 60-65 mph. Kept pushing the bow down.

Left hand steering.

Donzi Marine chrome scripts on both sides just below the rub rail near the transom.

alljet
01-15-2002, 08:19 PM
Thanks, Formula. Great job! This helps me narrow down my year even more. With yellow gel coat, two vents, one "floor heater register," Vee drive, and Mopar power (probably not original), I'll bet it's a '67.But my battery is on the starboard stringer- probably something they had to do to make the Vee drive fit.

Formula Jr
01-16-2002, 04:37 AM
Regarding the Vents.
This one has bothered me for awhile cause there didn't appear to be any pattern. So I just looked through all the Photos in the Registry and think I have a handle on it now.

From 64 to early 66, the boats don't necessarily have to have any of the clam shell vents. They must have been optional. Venting was thru the rear seat and a rather large stainless louvered vent in the rear deck, just above the transom. One side of this vent is usually ducted to a blower.

In 65 to 68, the standard seems to be two, opposing direction clam shell vents (Port open to bow/ Starboard open to stern), the rear seat vent and the louvered rear deck vent.

In 69 and onward, there is no seat vent, no louvered rear deck vent and there are four clam shell vents, Fore vents open to the bow, aft vents open to the stern.

BigGrizzly
01-16-2002, 05:28 PM
On our 1966 16 the stainless loovers are fake. The seat vent is there and two scoops one facing fore the other aft. The battery was in front of the engine origionally, now its rear starbord. th blower goes to the aft scoop
Randy

Formula Jr
01-16-2002, 06:05 PM
Oky,..... No. wait a sec... What?
You mean to say there are some boats that the louvered rear deck plate just isn't functional?
Any one else have a non-functional louvered rear deck plate, and what year is it?

mattyboy
01-16-2002, 07:03 PM
yup my rear louvre vent on my 68 is for show only, the only hole in it is for the " anchor light" on the top of the transom

Matt

Formula Jr
01-16-2002, 07:46 PM
So, with the introduction of the twin clam shell vents as standard in 66, the louvered deck vent was not drilled for ventilation until dropped entirely in '69. How ever, all pre '69 16's have the seat register vent. Its to bad they dropped this design, it really made alot of sense as this area, a natural air foil, would have made for a pretty good vacuum.

1996Z15
01-16-2002, 08:00 PM
Please excuse me if this question appears to be a stupid one as I am still learning about Donzi's but you mentioned a "Hook" at the stern of the 16' Donzi's. Is this "hook" found on all Donzi models or just the 16'? A friend of mine mentioned this "hook" to me before and said that you could sand it off and pick up 5mph. Is there any truth to that statement and how would it affect the boats ride?

Tony
01-16-2002, 08:28 PM
Formula,

Yes, my '67 16' also has the non-functional louvre grill on the stern. Maybe they just thought it looked good!

ALLAN BROWN
01-17-2002, 07:28 AM
The hook that keeps popping up is in fact an automatic trim tab. It is positioned between the outside strake and the chine, with the thought that it would be effective at lower speeds, and out of the water at high speed. Jim Wynne had the patent. It was std. on the 16' Donzi, and the 233 Formula. I built a couple of 16's with no hook, and it didn't make a bit of difference.

RPD
01-17-2002, 07:05 PM
Thanks for the discussion about the effect of the hook at higher speed.... I have a 16 OB Baby (the hook is quite visible) with a 150 Yamaha Vmax. Runs about 57 with 21" prop at 5800-5900 rpm which is overrevving the engine. I'm going to try a 23". It'll be interesting to see if the hook prevents me from picking up any speed. I use the boat as a ski boat and general runabout so I don't want to get too extreme on the prop.

BigGrizzly
01-17-2002, 07:17 PM
When I was yonger Andy Ceisla had a 16 we put a 327 in and ran it on the measured mile on the metedconk river then the next week andy took it off, what a mess, we than ran it again and nothing changed except it porpoised at 3000 more. On our 16 we didn't change it because at full throttle it almost out of the water, besides its too much work.

Randy

turbo2256
01-17-2002, 07:23 PM
If you remove the hook some more speed can be gained but then tabs are a must

turbo2256
01-17-2002, 07:43 PM
My 66 has the rear seat vent and is adjustable like a home heating vent. Rear vent functional with blower attached. Had to move the blower to clear the turbo's. Came with 260 Interceptor Eaton drive and a structural cast aluminum oil pan with the front motor mounts cast into the front sides of the pan. Still using the oil pan.
I was told by a coworker these engines were orignaly builtout of an old gas station here in the Detroit area.

Formula Jr
01-17-2002, 09:01 PM
RPD, Its funny you refer to the OB model as the "Baby." This is backed-up by official references. There was some discussion about the NADA guides and what "Baby Donzi" meant a while back. I'm considering now that "Baby Donzi" was the offical name of the OB 16. This clears up some of the confusion I had, since I was thinking the "Baby" and "Ski-sporter" were the same, clearly now, these are two different models.


Turbo, I gotta wonder about that style of engine mount. I mean, every oil pan I have ever seen has itty-bitty little bolts to just hold it on and make a seal. Did you have to drill and tap the block for bigger bolts?

RPD
01-17-2002, 09:13 PM
The brochures from the early seventies that I remember referred to the 16 outboard model as the Baby 16 OB or OB Baby. But I've never heard this model referred to as a "Baby Donzi" ..... Curious...

turbo2256
01-17-2002, 10:28 PM
All the bolting is the same as stock. The rear two because of casting thikness of the pan were a pain with regular hex style so those have been replaced with socket heads. It should do quite well though. This style pan is often used today to help strenghen pan rails on blocks and distribute torque loads from the drive train. One I designed has been on the Ford Ranger 2.5s the last few years. Now concidered best in class and won a max award for it. The only big differance is it has a metal to metal gasket the Intercepter pan has a standard cork one. In the Donzi I belive the mounts were incorpeated into the pan because Newer ones I have seen with the ford motor
have huge cut outs in the stringes to accomidate the more triditional mounting off the block mtg bosses.

raritan
01-18-2002, 01:49 PM
Allan Browne,
In you opinion what is the difference in perfomance between the early (65) 16 footer and the same year 18footer. Is it due to hull configuration? I have a 65 16footer that originally had a 4 cyl with eaton. It was replaced two owners ago with a 350 and 280 volvo. Can this hull run as fast as the same year 18 footer?

Rob
01-19-2002, 06:12 PM
Allan, the historical insights and advice you provide on this board are just outstanding. Your experience in the industry and knowledge of performance powerboating is second to none. I always look forward to reading one of your posts. They make keeping up with the board and owning the old boats just that much more fun.

Thanks for sharing with us.

Rob
01-19-2002, 06:16 PM
Also, Formula Junior, the post on the 16 was terrific. Thanks to you for all of the effort in getting the oral history documented.

zeeksta
01-21-2002, 05:09 PM
hey, so a 16 outboard is not a sweet 16? it is a baby?
i have a 72 16 outboard donzi with a ski locker and wrap around seating
let me know what i have
thanks zeek