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1996Z15
01-02-2002, 06:54 AM
Of the 18' boats is the X-18 more or less valuable than the 2+3? I see more of the 2+3's so I would imagine that the X-18 is more valuable. How about the Corsican, where does that fall into play and is any one typically faster than the other?

mattyboy
01-02-2002, 07:14 AM
the X-18 and the corsican are both limited production boats, and that makes them rare and have better resale value . as far as performance goes the guys who have em would be the ones to answer that.


Matt

1996Z15
01-02-2002, 12:49 PM
Were all Corsicans V-Drives? A long time ago there was an all black Corsican in my area that was a V-Drive. At the time I had never seen a Corsican so I had no idea what it was.

1996Z15
01-02-2002, 12:52 PM
Why would the X-18 be any slower than the other 18's? Sorry for all of the questions but I am new to this site and have alot of interest and just as many questions.

Formula Jr
01-02-2002, 04:03 PM
There's two questions going on here.
Rarity and Speed.
Speed is not really answerable as most Donzis had optional power packages that would make one model faster that another, depending on what you were comparing it to.

Approximate ranking of rarity goes something like this:

18 2+3 Scorpian - 1
Criterion SS <4 Sorry there's no III
Gt 21 twin <4
Benchseat Hornet I Outdrive. <10
Sharp Keel, Three Hatch 18 Very Few
Criterion II <13
Sport Fisherman 65 pre 88. <7
Baby Donzi, F-14 <21 Combined
Dorals, Spritfires, Spirits <40 Combined
16 OB, Pre '70 <8
Other Criterions <26
22 Red Heads <12
Black Hawks <40
Well maintained 28 Sportsman. Only seen two.
Corsicans <58
X-18s <172

A Vee drive will make any 18 rarer than any Outdrive 18 and a Jet Drive will make it rarer still. The Corsican is considered faster cause it had a larger engine compartment and could take a taller motor and the seating arrangment placed a single driver closer to the center line of the boat. This really only applies to comparing Vee drive Corsicans with Vee drive X-18s. As to price and rarity, there's still not enough of a collectors market to drive up a price over one boat or the other. 90% of the buying public don't know the production numbers or whether one boat is more rare than any other.
People that think their boat is rare - sometimes correctly; put insane valuations on their boats. I recently saw a GT 21 for $25,000 and a Bench Seat Hornet Outdrive for $22,000. And I had to laugh when Satan's Chariot was listed at 125K. At best, these boats are worth half that. Any particular engine option can radically change the price. For instance there was a Hornet II in Annapolis that I was interested in but the owner wanted $15,000. The better half of that valuation was the twin turbo charged engine that needed constant attention. There is a careful tight rope you have to walk regarding rarity and condition. This is not an exact science and the guidelines are pretty loose. And it depends ultimately on how you want to use the Boat. For instance, if you want an Original Like New Condition first year 16. You gotta deal with a damnable Eaton C Drive and 50 MPH tops at WOT. Perfect for winning boat shows, but not a daily runner. If you want a hell running 18 and really like the rough stuff, you better get one less than 15 years old so that the hull still has all its structural integrity. Most of us are somewhere in the middle. Loosely defined: There's four ways to buy a boat.
1. Get it new
2. Get a rare one for pennies and do an off deck restore.
3. Get a totally restored boat that was lovingly put back together by someone willing to lose money on the deal.
4. Find an oky condition boat with most of its original hardware that you can comfortably dump 3 to 6 thousand dollars into.

What I hate running into, and this happens alot, is an owner with a clapped out rare boat, that knows its a rare boat, and wants alot of money. Stingers are shot, Coring is bad, Interior is gone, Hull's been painted several times, engine is toast, Stress cracks every where, tank needs replacing and still they want Four to Seven Thousand. These boats will put you upside down in a hurry.
Location also makes a huge difference. Out here in the great Pacific Northwest, its rare to find any one that even knows what a donzi is or why anyone would want one over a perfectly good Bayliner.

BigGrizzly
01-02-2002, 04:44 PM
John and Kathy S. have a 427 Vdrive Corsican. Several were made for Lake LBJ by the feds I beleve they were black or Dark blue. I own a Corsican and like a lot I also have a Criterion and like as well but for different reasons. Both these boats just look neat and cool. BTW Mad Poodle's X18 is faster than my Corsican.

I do not agree with JR on the older boats just becareful just like buying a used car.

Randy

Formula Jr
01-02-2002, 06:26 PM
Grizzly, all I'm saying here is that if a guy is looking for a boat they can run hard, and they are not up to speed on surveying, they are better off getting a relatively new boat. Fifteen years, is I admit, a huge generalization. Placing the cut-off around 1985. It all depends on how the boat was stored, and how much sunlight it got, the relative humidity of the area. And other factors. I disagree, that its like buying a used car. A Classic MG maybe. Fiberglass will off-gas through out its useable life. And progressively gets more ridgid and fragile. It's always on the clock, so to speak. The steel frame and body of a car is far more stable. If I'm looking at an older classic, what I want most of all, is some whiff of that off-gasing, to know its still resilient, and can pant with out cracking. If you can't smell the esters still coming off the boat, it will start to fracture if you run it hard. These will show up as small cracks on the bottom, in the fields, that will leak out water when its on the hard. This is an un-fixable condition as it entails the whole boat and defines when a classic should become a show boat. Though I have read of extra ordinary measures such as peeling off the first two layers and reglassing, regelcoating the whole thing. While its true you can rebuild the stringers, replace the transom and all of that, but when the hull, as a folded panel of schedualed layup starts to fall apart, its best to retire the boat to calmer waters. This holds true for any glass boat, not just Donzis.

GeneD
01-02-2002, 06:59 PM
Gee, not one mention of the rare 3 hatch 18-2+3.
I'm shocked!

Formula Jr
01-02-2002, 07:19 PM
"Sharp Keel, Three Hatch 18 Very Few"

Fourth On the list.
Mr. Drago!

olredalert
01-02-2002, 08:08 PM
Rarity also depends on how many of the originally manufactured boats of one model are left.The aesthetics of a particular model have a part in this as well.Both the X-18 and the Corsican are spectacular designs.Even though there were many more X-18s made than Corsicans,there seem to be only a few left.Of course,there are fewer Corsicans,but not that many fewer.Feel lucky to have had both and still have one all in one lifetime!..........just.......ol red!

BigGrizzly
01-02-2002, 11:27 PM
He is just saying that because he once had a Corsican than gave it up, regretted it than searched high and low untill he found his new Corsican, and realized he was still in love with it. First love is always the longest one. Hey Red when are we going to see you in these parts?

Randy

olredalert
01-03-2002, 10:06 AM
Griz,

-----Would like to be anywhere that the temperatures are at least 50 degrees warmer.Its been a bit nippy up here the last 2 weeks or so.
-----Had to take the rear bumper off my Suburban yesterday,outside,and thought I might leave the ends of my fingers attached to it.I guess its all relative though as some of you"southerners"seem to be taking a lickin as well!
-----Was talking to Bob Sindelar yesterday(you might remember him from the Fall Factory Party),and he said something about 77 days till spring,and how short that seemed.Dunno,seems like too long to me.
-----Was hoping to get down to Lake Lanier area sometime soon as a matter of fact but family duties call and it looks like my winter travelings are,once more,going to revolve arond helping my 93 year old Dad visit his 98 year old sister in Tucson.I get to go to the famous Barrett-Jackson auction,San Diego,and Las Vegas as well so it isnt hardship by any means.Kind of like a short walkabout.Jan and I both want to do the exploring down there that you and I talked about so hopefully will be able to do it in the spring.Will contact you for tour guide service!Thanks!......just.....ol red!

v-drive
01-12-2002, 09:06 AM
FORMULA JR. WHERE DOES A 18FT. 427 V-DRIVE FALL ON THE LIST OF RARITY? I'V ALWAYS WANDERED HOW MANY WERE BUILT.THANK YOU!

Formula Jr
01-12-2002, 09:24 AM
18 foot what?:
2+3, best guess <20
Corsican <4 or
X-18 is up for grabs as the 454 was in place. Don't know if they offered both.

427's were always mated to Vee Drives in this era.
In any case, the boat is ultra rare as the 427 was the maxed out version of any Donzi in that period.

Ed Donnelly
01-12-2002, 11:36 PM
Formula Jr. What is a Criterion 111 ? I have heard of Criterion, Criterion 11,Criterion S.S.

Formula Jr
01-12-2002, 11:54 PM
Sorry, You are right, there is no III. Just the II, regular and SS.

I never said I knew anything........
and because no one is stepping up to the plate, to fill out the descriptions of boats on the list, except, Eric, Doug Hess and Poodle, I'll just dance around like a clown with bad info. till you do. tongue.gif

BigGrizzly
01-13-2002, 02:26 AM
Jr.I stepped up to the plate several times, and went over the Criterion thing several times. I sure it was just a typo. Then I can build a motor from scratch but can't spell. Nobody is perfect.
Randey

Formula Jr
01-14-2002, 09:03 PM
Sorry Griz if I sound testy. I've just gone thru the whole message base for the third time, combing out information on the various models. Its all in there, but its spread out across many different threads, updated, argued and debated in such a manner that creating a cogent writeup on any line is making my brain hurt. All appologies. I started the writeup on the history and model changes of the 16 Ski-Sporter, as a starting place, and halfway in I realized one can write an entire book on just this model.

Tselby
01-16-2002, 03:41 PM
Big Griz, You stated humidity plays a roll in longitivity of the glass. Whats better, high or low? Im curious as I installed a block heater on the engine. The engine bay is all warm when you lift the hatches but now I wonder if I could be doing more harm than good.

TS

Formula Jr
01-16-2002, 05:40 PM
Humidity, plays a factor in things like, gas tank rusting, Electrical connections, Transom Coring, Stringers and Deck coring. For instance, if you're looking at a boat stored outside under cover in Arizona, Its more likely the boat has dry coring than one stored outside, in say Maryland 95% humidity all summer or Oregon 95% humidity all winter. In a high humidity area, any introduction of water to the cored areas will never dryout and bacteria will turn the wood into pulp. A heater will at least keep it above the dew point, so you're not continously soaking the engine. Maryland and Oregon have phenominal amounts of dew in the mornings. There is a short story in Ray Bradberry's Illistrated Man about some astronauts stuck on a planet that always rains. Its pretty much an inside joke about the PNW. The answer of coarse, is a garage.

alljet
01-16-2002, 07:08 PM
Formula,
Great info about fiberglass aging problems. I'll be real careful with mine. Any idea regarding numbers for the 16 Classic Vee drives?

Donzified
01-18-2002, 08:48 PM
It sounds like you think I should put my 1976 X-18 away because it's to old to search out "air time" every day , the jet boats cringe at big wind,I dream of it.
I replaced the transom because of some rot around the drain hole other wise I was planning on this boat "flying" longer than I can hold on.

Am I wrong?

Does any body disagree with you on this?

tailwind
01-18-2002, 08:58 PM
No worries here, I have been able to put approx. 150 hours / year on my 61 Bonanza - now at 4,500 plus and going strong !

RPD
01-18-2002, 09:24 PM
OK F-jr... you say the pre '70 OB 16 had only 8 made. What about the 16 outboard through the 70's? I have a '76. In 35+ years of watching donzi's I've only seen one other one, once, for 5 minutes as we passed on Santa Rosa Sound. How many were made? For how many years?

Thanks