closed cooling system help?

[riverrat]

Hey guys I need some help on prices & types of closed systems for my '18 350 Magnum pressure is getting heavy from the Harbormonster to dip mine in the salt!! He has told me he will change my site name to something very wrong if I don't go this year..
I just don't understand why he does'nt like my river.... It's got a naked cove where lots of girls take those clothes off, a racing cove, & lots of hot boats in the afternoons to look at & play with.. go figure?? :rolleyes:

[Bryan Tuvell 33ZX]

http://i-netmarine.com/fwc/MerCruiser_454_502_CID_Multi_Port_EFI_1996_99.htm# half%20systems

A friend went with these folks and was very happy.
Bryan

[harbormaster]

Puleassssseee....

That river is just a lake that is 100 yards wide and 4 miles long. One end is blocked by a dam and the other is blocked by the Coastguard "No Fly Zone" (chemical plants in the area).

And I have never seen any nekid girls on in the nude cove. (Rat says some of them are scary, but they are there.)

[Cuda]

I bought mine for my 350 last year from Ocean East marine. I paid right around $500 for the kit, full system. It wasn't hard to install , other than removing the plugs from the exhaust manifolds.

[harbormaster]

So since Rat has a MPI 350 mag If he adds closed cooling, the operating temp is going to change. Will he need to make any changes to the ECM??

AND if someone has an engine that has been salt, can they retro fit a closed cooling system on it? What preparations would they need to do to neutrilize the crap in the block?

[MOP]

Something to think about is the space constaints in the compartment. I have taken the tanks to the radiator shop and had the pressure cap removed and a tube soldered in then replace the cap fitting with one that accepts a hose. This lets you mount the tank low along the stringer and out of the way with the fill cap bracketed up near the hatch. You will thank your lucky stars if you do this mod, yes you will have some extra hose but a ton less hassle working on your belts and water and or fuel pumps in the future.

[JimG]

Since I run in salt water, I guess I need to look into a closed system for my old cruiser. :(

Let's see, it's 25 years old, and has 1070 hours on it! IN SALTWATER! And never flushed! :D :D

JimG (can hear his boat dissolving....he he!) wink

[krakmeup]

And then there's ol' Mental Floss. The original starboard engine had 1300 hours over 20 years, all salt water, never flushed and the intake manifold finally was 'marginal' and had to be replaced when I rebuilt the heads. I have to concur with JimG - there's an awful lot of metal in these parts and you can live for a looooong time in saltwater without too much worry. That said, of course flushing and closed systems are good preventatives, but realize the manufacturers know what types of environments these engines may see.

Get out there and enjoy - worry more about hitting a crab trap than the crud going through those little passages (there- now you REALLY have something to fear out there!)

Missed you out there, hope you get better soon!

K & RA

[BigGrizzly]

For you non beleivers Closed cooling systems are going to be standard on all engines soon especially on efi models for consistant temprerature reason. I have been putting them on my engines since 1967. My boat engine wear out before they corrode out. Jim G. your the lucky one. I guess you either run in brackish water which helps. You only use your boat 42 hours a year. Last year I put 22 hours on My corsican and 165 on my Criterion Our 1966 16 is on its 3rd engine and has 2476 hours on it and it has never seen fresh water. One thing I can tell you guys I have never lost a circulating pump on one of my closwd cooling systems and I never winterize the block. I have a blown 502 on the Criterion with 690+ HP and have no problem cooling it. the exchanger is 4 inches in diameter and 29 inches long and total aditional weight to my boat including antifreez is 52 pounds this includes the circulating pump that I didn't have before(had a crossover system).
If Dalelema had a closed cooling system he woyldn't have needed a intake manafold for his very special Minx with the 350 EFI- very linited production engine. There is an artical in Boats Us mag on this subject- read it. There is a direct corriladion to exhaust manifold condensation, sometimes confused with reversion, and exhaust valve and seat problems. In short it is less or non existant with a closed cooling system. The reason is the exhaust water is cooler with one.

I have bough systems from Sen-Dur for my Corsican my 1966 16 and my Dad" boats. My Criterion has a new style called the Full Flow system, which was developed for high performance and Military engine systems. They are smaller lighter more durable and now available for every one. The designers are from Proformance Product Technologies, web site is www.perfprotech.com (http://www.perfprotech.com) and their phone is sales 866-335-3396 tech support is 405-533-3812. BTW these guys designed the systems that Merc uses!! Systems run from $500 to $1400 depending what engine you get it for. Here is a size for a 383 with abour 475 HP, 4 inch in diameter and 17 inches long- how is that for size.

For Harbour Master All the T-states can remain the same, about 160 on Mercs.Marine ECU only checks too cold and too hot it is a dumb system.

[JimG]

Sorry BigGrizzly, but I've logged 189 hours in the last eleven months! (Krakmeup logged a little more I think.) And never hauled! And I'm no where NEAR brackish water. It's Galveston Bay. Pretty darned salty here!

I'm not knocking fresh water systems. I wish I had one. I was just razzing Riverrat a little! :D

I was just pointing out to the fresh water guys that a little salt water is not going to damage anything. Just flush it good, and watch for corrosion. Krakmeup's right: crab traps are a much bigger hazard down here. Keep a sharp eye when you leave the channel!

JimG :)

[MOP]

There has always been much Tado about fresh water cooling. I like a few up here am in my 60's and have been a marine tech for way to many years. I would doubt if any old timer would argue the point that the engines do last a very long time in salt. Look at any High and dry operation which in my mind is even with flushing is the nost severe for corrosion. When I ran the shop if we had ten over heats a month 8-9 were fresh water cooled with pluged tubes in the coolers. I agree with better overall better preformance with higher regulated temperature. It is in my mind a real judgement call to ad the complexity and weight. If you do convert it would be dumb not to go to a full system and also save the manifolds. Fresh water is cheaper in the long run but less dependable and more complex, also running at 160 gives you a more time to see an overheat starting to happen if you watch you gauges like alot of guys do. At 180 it happens real quick. Real good idea is to install a 200 degree temp buzzer to alert you.

[HOTFOOT]

Does anyone out there have any experience, knowlege or comments on the NEUTRA-SALT system for flushing that Volvo is advertising? Apparently you can flush with salt water and this material is injected during flushing to neutralize the salt. If it wasn't Volvo I would would be real suspicious.

[Jamesbon]

Just more food for thought. I ran the first SBC in my Donzi for 12 years in saltwater. No problems. The block did have sand and corrosion plugging the lower petcocks, but didn't cause any malfunctions.

Even experts down here rarely use FWC, they say you'll wear your engine out before it corrodes out with proper care.

In light of this, I would still opt for FWC if I had the choice.

The new BBC will be raw water cooled, at least for the time being.

[riverrat]

Thanks for the input guys. I think I'll leave her alone for now & just run it as is.. I've always had saltwater outboard fishing boats untill this donzi. & never a problem. but, the time spent in the salt does age your boat! even if you wash it & flush it after every use. been there done that since 1980 in our bay complex.. and thanks for the heads up on the crabers. It's been a problem in our complex for many years & worth a mention for those that have never been here. I do miss running out there & will return this year since we now have some company to justify the trip. the river is damn close to the house & very protected from the wind. that allows 40+ guys to hual ass all day in '18's & live to tell about it the next day! This is not the smoothest riding boat I've ever had but we like it :D

[BigGrizzly]

I'm Courious, M.O.P. Several times you talked of plugged tubes in the coolers. The tubes in all the coolers that I worked on , Palmers, Cheises, Detroits. GM's and aftremarket coolers such as Sen-Dur and Monarc, were on the raw water side which is like the trans and oil coolers(which most have 1/4id. tubes too). If the tubes are clogged it is from outside matter not cough by the strainer or electrolisis due to a reverse polarity, not the fault of the system but of the owner and/or the installer. If it is cough by the cooler than it would have ended up in the block and/or the exhaust manifold if the cooler wasn't present. The full system Vs the 1/2 system is another issue. Full would be the best but isn't always feasible due to the cooler size- a llitle over 1.5 times. Than 98% of OEM systems are half systems for this reason. A $10,000-$60,000 engine much worse than a $400-$1,600 exhaust system.

[Formula Jr]

Thanks Randy and MOP for the reminder. This year I really should pull both plates off and ream the channels out on the exchanger. Laziness kills fresh water systems, not the design... wink

[Digger]

Randy I just had a good chat with Andy Logan at Perf Prod Tech. Are you running auxiliary water pickups in your closed cooled applications? If so, from where? thru transom? Andy is of the opinion I need to do it for my setup otherwise there will not be adequate flow thru the heat exchanger

p.s. how is your back?

[Cuda]

The salt will actually permeate the cast iron of an engine. I pulled the heads of a salt water engine and let them sit outside where the moisture of the air could get to them. The moisture leached the salt out of the water passages in the heads and block. It looked like someone took a box of salt and made three quarter inch pyramids of salt over all the water passages. I had a picture of it, but I cannot find it. I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it. I don't know the previous owners habits of flushing, but since it was on davits, I doubt it was good. The heads were shot from corrosion. I took them to a head shop, (no not that kind :) ) and he said all I had there were paper weights. He also told me they use the lightest castings of heads on marine engines, and that they actually wieghed about 8 pounds less than normal automotive heads (which he sold me).

Have not doubt, salt water is your enemy, you have to learm to protect yourself. I have three I/O's and all three have FWC. I run a consistent 160 degrees on them at all times. The only time it goes up is when the raw water intake is clogged, and it would rise in that case no mater which cooling system it has.

Even with FWC, the engine is going to be exposed to salt through the air going through the carb. This salt air will cause an engine to seize if the engine sits for a long period of time. The rings will rust to the cylinders.

[MOP]

To try to answer Big Griz, yup the sea water side seems to be most of the problem side. Like all others I have found pebbles, barnacles, and Zink build up. But I had a flukey one that had me going nuts, I had the tubes shiny, brand new pump and new hoses so I knew I had covered the bases. Damn thing still ran just enough hot to spook you. Took it to my bud Rich at the radiator shop, he looked it and said it was plasticized I said WHAT! He went on to explain that running a high concentrate of anti freeze and getting it hot will actually coat the tubes with some stuff in the anti freeze. He acid bathed it which me looking at it would not have done and you guessed it, It ran cool. He said never ever run high concentrates of antifreeze, run just what you need. Lately I have been using Nal-Cool in all the warmed over expensive motors, they run slightly cooler and make me feel like I am passing on something good to buds. Though if you run Nal-Cool you need to anti freeze them in the off season. I dump the Nal-cool in the fall and reclaim the antifreeze in the spring, test it and reuse it the next year.

P.S. on cooler size! Sendure is a local around here, I had the occasion to work or the owners boat. He told me that he and from what he knew all cooler manufacturers had an agreement with OEM to only have a 15% margin on cooling tubes(OEM does not warranted over heating) its there built in ANNUITY! That's why I insist on 454 heat exchangers and oil coolers on warmed over 350 blocks, but I do stat them to 180 degrees! They do run better hotter. On stock stuff I like to include the manifolds so you only have to change the risers. Most expensive stuff is S/S so about the only things that hurt them is vibration and electrolisis. Which gets back to a tip I posted way back, put a Tee in the intake line ground it well and put a Zink in it. I know from alot of years that it works, it will extend the life of all water passages, block and manifolds. Any one running a 502 EFI Merc block would do well putting a Zink into the intake manifold water passage as it is aluminum. We have had several rot through, welding has run us $500 and new is around a $1000.
Another PS Thanks for the Perfprotech site!

[BillG]

Cuda
I think that guy was giving you some do-do about those marine heads. The only thing different, is brass freeze plugs and valve material.

[Dr. Dan]

:cool: Interesting Topic....I know nothing of Fresh Water Systems...but when Liz and I run in Salt Water...we flush our system with this stuff...some interesting info here! www.saltawayproducts.com (http://www.saltawayproducts.com) we have not had any severe issues of corrosion....yet! wink ....Doc

[BigGrizzly]

MOP The only part of sen-Dur left Up there is Bill Rehour their thermal engineer and small part factory. The three sons rune the buisness and factory out side of Ft Ladudale Fla. The middle son Winston is incharge of sales Al is the book guy and the third is into compiters. The father died several years ago after the move. Like me time slipps by.It wasn't yesterday. Lile you Ive been at this well over 40 years. Cooling system has come a long way since then. In 1960 the cooler for my blown engine would be 60 inches by 6 inches with a three pass ,now it is 30 inxhes X 4 inches and a 5 pass. I have been building HP engines with closed cooling systems for a long tine and I've never saw this plasticized . I did antifrezze test when I was on the auto side of my company also and we found 50/50 best for all around Glycole mix , which I have used since 1967 on all my stuff. Now they have the new orange stuff which should be even better(havn't tested it). My next quesion, if you chang to Nal-cool and your engine is running cooler than your thermostat isn't doing its job. It is suppose to keep temp stable right?

Digger, I use a transum pick up on all my Donzis. with a 1 1/4 id hose. Guess Andy told I was testing for him. When he came out here we went testing in 68 degree weather in the rain. I gave hin an 85 MPH ride, Then we went To Garry's and showed him a couple of 1,200 HP Poker Run motors which we want coolers for. The engines actuall run faster with them. What Andy is saying is that the bravo lower is marginal on bringing water in, especially in turns, only half works and they clogg easieier than hull pickups(whch back flush easier). Andy realy Knowes his stuff, after all he worked at Merc R&D for years and did alot of work on the SC600 and the 496 engines.

[BUIZILLA]

I'm finding this to be an informative topic.

Does anybody have any experience with RMI-25?

Randy, just curious, but your on a fresh lake? why the FWC system too?

Jim

[BigGrizzly]

The closed cooling system gives even temps that can't be had with ANY raw water system, both circ pump and cross over types with or without thermostats. I used the term temperature stability eariler in this thread. One small advantage is more HP. I have increasecd fuel economy and speed on all my boats with the exception of our old 40 Owens because the its last engines had closed systems from the start so no data was available. The main reason is that antifreez has rust inhibitors in it and keeps internal rust down or elinitates it. Another reason I do venture into salt evey once in awhile. In all raw water systems the 454/502 runs hot on the port side by 40->60 on the outside -yet the front cylinder on each bank runs 30->70 colder inside than the other cylinders. My particular engine there is only a 5 degree difference on each bank at 4000 RPMs. I will admitt there is a little more work in mine than just a closed system. Since I have a blower I want everything just right, and raw water is just too unstable.

[riverrat]

Man, this one just keeps going.. alot of good posts & info from ya'll. I thank ya'll again for the input. ( you too JimG & krakmeup) I've got big shoulders & hope like hell you don't get the stomach virus going around.. it sucks.. Judy & I are just now coming around.. hell of a way to loose 10 lbs. but, we will have plenty of good days to come this summer & are looking forword to having some more classic's in the area :D now if we can get you to the river eek!

the rat..

[Rootsy]

actually on the marine vs auto cylinder head... when i pulled the top of my motor down i had GM #217 castings... with 11/32 stem intake and 3/8 stem sodium filled exhaust valves... 1.250 springs with exhaust rotators, pressed in studs... Mercruiser gets about 800 bucks / head. you can go to your local GM dealer and purchase THE SAME EXACT HEAD, CASTINGS ARE IDENTICAL, COMPONENTS ARE IDENTICAL, COMPLETE ASSY... for about 250 / ea.

As far as the plasicized cooler tubes... in a nutshell.... Ethylene and Propylene are polymer molecules... when linked into chains by a chemical reaction and catylist they form POLYethylene and or POLYpropylene respectively. The glass transition temperature of PE is around 250 F... and performs as a viscoelastic fluid by 300 F... and is nearly fluidic by about 550 F. SO if you get Antifreeze hot enough the ethylene or propylene molecules could break off from the ethylene glycol and or propylene glycol molecule under the correct conditions, precipitate out of solution and attach to a surface... This could be facilitated souly by heat and the introduction of some form of reactant but also could be facilitated with an appropriate electrical charge... and PLASTICS ARE A GREAT INSULATOR with a very low thermal conductivity...

[Crossbow]

Wow just had a flashback to chemistry class!! eek!

[MOP]

Hi Griz stats do control temp to get it up to the proper temp, but if the engine runs a little hotter it don't help cool it. With Nal-cool the top temp running hard is slightly lower. NACAR also has the cooler coolant you can buy.
I agree anything warmed over should use a transom pickup. I do not agree with 50/50 during the running season, in fact most manufactuers had bulitins years back to go to 30/70 anti/water. I ran a motor with straight and it ran hotter. Another thouhgt kind of of a bit off is the topic about the salt permiating the block. I have maybe a dumb idea but I have read about some engine manufacturers that cast there blocks then put them out in the weather to cure then machine them. That gave me an idea I tried a couple of years ago and have done for several people since, I had one of my friends freeze and crack a block. It was and old Chevy PU and he had little to no money so he let me experiment on his engine, I filled it with good old salt water. I let it leak out over night and repeated the process till it stopped leaking from the crack corroding shut. Filled and ran it with pressure cap and yup it leaked so we repeated the process for a few more days. WaLa to this day it still don't leak. Which makes me think if you were to boil out a block then let let it age like the manufacturers would the pores close up so it to would be less prone to deterioration. I said dumb but the cracked block thing does work just be patient.

[Forrest]

Grizz is right about temperature stability, more power, better economy, and no corrosion in the water jackets with a closed cooling system. I'm a real believer in closed systems, and for that reason, I run closed systems on both of my Donzis. The 383 in the X-18 uses a "full" system, and the 302 in the 16 uses a "half" system. OK, with all that known, why in the heck did I go with a raw-water crossover by-pass type systems rather than closed cooling systems on the pair of 383s in my Magnum? The main reason was, believe it or not, there is not enough room in that boat's engine compartment to have heat exchangers and all the related plumbing, AND have access to the water pump, belts, spark plugs, etc. I felt that access to the from of the engine was especially important when venturing offshore and out of sight of land in the Florida Gulf of Mexico. With a by-pass crossover type raw-water cooling system, and a 143-degree thermostat I might add, there are no circulation pumps on the front of the engines. Also in my case with Volvo-type crank-driven raw-water pumps, there is only one belt to worry about on each engine, and that's the one that drives the alternator. Furthermore, with nothing in the way, there is plenty of open space to get your arms in there to work on stuff, even when the engine is piping hot. For that matter, even if the alternator belt breaks, you can keep on going providing that you have enough battery left, and I run three batteries. The other alternator can keep any of those batteries charged.

Go with a closed system if you can, but don't go without one to try to save money. Corrosion cost a lot more than any heat exchanger and hoses.

[Bryan Tuvell 33ZX]

riverrat, your right, this one keeps going and GREAT data.

So I pose this question to the experts, I have one season on a new motor flushed and reflushed with salt away after every use. So would I too get the benefits listed above? At exhaust change my stuff still looked like new, some rust/corrosion in the riser, but nothing major.

I am very curious on this one... I have the room in my engine room. In my shoes, 1 season, 150 hours, would YOU add CL Cooling?

Thanks, Bryan

FORREST, when are you and your pretty lady (Jenny) visiting the VA Beach again?

[Forrest]

Bryan, not soon enough! But hopefully we can get up there when it warms up a bit.

Also Bryan, if that engine of yours looks like new in the water jackets and passages, I see no reason why you couldn't go to a closed cooling system. For those folks who's block is already loaded up with layers of rust, don't bother spending your money on a closed cooling system until your re-power. You just can't get all of that rust and scale out of those water jackets, and it will just keep flaking off and into the closed cooling system forever. Do it when its new, or still looks like nearly new.

[MOP]

I have taken apart well flushed salt engines they do stay pretty darn clean, I would not hesitate to switch mine over. My block has 1/4 baby sea cocks which I open during flushing to date I have not seen any rust come out. I do flush a full 20-25 minutes, but also only have 57 hours and have thought about putting the Chrysler 440 cooler I have kicking around on but just haven't foung time.

[Bryan Tuvell 33ZX]

FORREST, great to hear from you, and you know Jenny loves the Mag more than the Donzi!
So bring it this time! :)

Back to the post, I have removed many parts and she is still fresh and new, some obvious surface rust, etc.... trying to make a decision, now or never, I thought of it last year and gave in too past experience that if flushed "every" time correctly, I can make 3 to 5 seasons, that is all I ask of a stock motor.

Thanks for the input, and give Jenny our best.
Bryan

[BigGrizzly]

Yea do it Bryan especially where you are. it also keeps all the sea junk out of the block.

Forrest the new systems I have been testing for the 383 were 17 inches long and 4 inches in diameter and can be mounted below the with just a little expanson tank high.

MOP I work for an auto manufacture and can tell you this 30 70 mix is all wrong. If you need it than your heat exchanger/radiator is too small or your raw water is inadequate. That bulletin you are relating to was in 1972 and only for summer use in sothern climates where the air was dry. This was done because newly introduced cat convertor cars ran so hot to heat up the three stage cats which are now defunct. In fact in 1976 Honda put out a buletin stating use 100% antifreze to protect their aluminum engines -they didn't have any overheat problems. Nascar is not allowed to use lubricating coolants which eliminates ALL antifreez on the market. What all majior teams usr is Water Wetter by Red Line and same stuff by some other name. The weathered block was done in the 194o's and 1950's it was called seasoning they were thrown in to lake outside of Detroit, all the manufactures did it untill they ran into increased production and quit in the mid 1950. When we built drag cars we wanted used blocks before the same reason . Now we leave them in liquid nitrogen for a day and let them heat up slowly to do the same thing.

Rootsy, you never ceis to amaize me. That is why I am not familiar with plastisizing. I never saw cooler temps at 500 deg. which means if the cooler was plastisized the block had to be worse, ie. trash. A 454 hits 350 deg the cylinder get out of round and need a bore job. This was very common with the motor home croud in the late 70 and early 1980's

[MOP]

Ok you caught ma at a good moment fully S*** Faced, all this BS about all this internal salt stuff and temp is pretty much just that BS! If there is another OLD FART like me willing to stand up he will also say the same thing THEY WILL WEAR OUT BEFORE THEY ROT OUT! Yup you will get a little bit of extra HP by raising the temp but no matter what more Complexity! I can introduce the hard heads to a commercial lobsterman on Block Island that had last I spoke to him 2200 hous that is, Twenty Two Hundred hours on 318 225 HP Chrysler over a number of years SALT COOLED! Do it if you need to do it don't let the BS do it for you, if you need that last couple of 10's of a MPH DO IT!

[MOP]

Hi Griz the bullitin I spoke of was Marine not an auto one. There point was the high mix did not cool as good as the lower percentage. I to still do not understand how a cooler can loose efficiancy from the plastisizing knowing a normal overheat is at much lower temps. But Richie swears its common. As to that aging thing I am under the impression that Jaguar still does it. It does make sense closing up the pores in the castings.

Boy this has turned out to be a wild ride on this topic.

[BigGrizzly]

They are right on that - water cools beter than a mix but doesn't prevent over heat as well. water boils at 212 deg and leaves steam pockets in water only systems. Prestone recomends 50/50 summer and winter, and I am sure they do know what they are doing. I stated before if your system is inadiquat than maybe it would help , but this is a bandade.

If this is BS to you than so be it I'm almost 60 years old and been building engines and been around the water since before my teens. you said sea strainers depend where you are . That is total BS all the old timers from North to South and East to West will agree with ME. you should have them!! Don't take this personally but you only see your area I get data and have worked both coasts. I used to work at Johson Brother Boat Works in PT Plasant NJ, The home of the Blackjack series boats and we would never build one with out a Sea streainer. AT that time Knowlege was not as good as today and closed cooling was just comming into its own on private owned boats. As for the marine bulletins, they copy auto stuff but as you see are out of date. No marine manufacturer useing auto engines can afford to do the R&D, they rely on auto guys for information. BTW there is an artical in the last Boat US mag on bad heads and salt in block. Merc and Volvo find By far Less problems with closed cooling systems. I suggest everybody read it.

You guy make your own choice I stated verifiable facts. I will stay with closed systems and sea strainers on every thing I have. BTW for thoes that think it is complicated - it isn't. It is just like the radiator in your car - for the half systems and only slightly more for the full system. If you guys are skeptical just come to Cumberland or the Eufaula events and look at mine. Or just come down to lake Linear and we can show you. There isn't anything left on this topic. Remember that saying - "Move up with the times or get left behind"

[JimG]

Thanks guys! THAT was an education. :)

I guess that's a subject that may not be agreed upon by everyone. I, for one, will probably not ever install FWC on a trailer boat (unless it came no other way). My experiences with saltwater cooled engines have not been bad (My old Blackfin was saltwater cooled, over 1200 hours, still going strong). And the shrimpers on my old dock are saltwater cooled, gas and diesels alike. Those guys run THOUSANDS of hours. And they never flush!

MOP, my cruiser has a 225 Chrysler in it. Arguably the most reliable gas inboard ever built, I know of several with over 3000 hours running around in old Trojans. BTW, I don't have a sea strainer either, he he! I guess I AM lucky! I'm doing everything I can to kill the old girl, and she just keeps on running!

Question, did Donzi install FWC on 60's/70's boats? Was it an option?

JimG

[MOP]

I was if you go through all my babbling reffering more to stock setups with I/O's. On boats with inboard pumps or warmed over engines a strainer it is a very good idea. If you look at most any OEM I/O setups there is no strainer and true many times the oil cooler ends up getting grass or what ever in it.

P.S. Friday night I was as stated S*** Faced so if I got on anyones nerves, Sorry.

Phil

[Cuda]

MOP, the internal salt is not bs. I witnessed it myself, I wish I had saved the pictures of it. The heads I replaced supposedly had 100 hours on them, and it would not have been much longer before the water jackets rusted through.

[MOP]

I agree with the salt and corrosion that eats cast iron. But one thing to remember that if it is kept wet it last for many years but if left to dry it starts to go very fast. Its the air getting to it that rapidly destroys it. Our Hi & Dry boats go through risers faster that boats left in the water which I know is due to the risers drying out after each haul. Granted there is air in the exhaust when an engine is not running, but it is captive moist air which I believe helps out a fair bit. I am a yacht broker now and end up in many yards. Anyone who has perused Long Islands older yards will attest to a bunch of old salt boat still around with original power.
I years back met a gent that had been deeply involved in retrieving artifacts from a war ship named the Calodin that sank off Montauk I believe during the Civil War. I saw cast iron cannons that had been down a very long time, they when raised were immersed into fresh water tanks for quite some time. They are now on display in the open air the look very good as do thousands worldwide. Near my home is the very first submarine base at New Suffolk. I have seen old parts that when brought up were in surprisingly good shape, but again literally blew up in weeks on shore. So to that end Keep It Wet it will serve you well for years!

<small>[ March 04, 2003, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: M.O.P. ]</small>

[Forrest]

Wow! It's nice to see that everyone agrees on this one! :D

Just remember that corrosion is a chemical reaction in which a metal is oxidized. Iron corrodes in the presence of oxygen and water and is accellerated by heat and contaminates.

What MOP is saying, and rightfully so, is to try to minimize the exposure of oxygen to the iron by never allowing the the water jackets to drain. That is an effective method to reduce the corrosion rate. The same principle applies to a closed cooling system as well except that you take it one step farther by reducing, or eliminating, the contaminate level as well. Also, coolant will typically have less desolved oxyen than that of raw water as well as some anti-corrosive additives.

[CDMA]

Forrest the voice of reason...

Chris

There is never one right answer boys and girls...