More drive and performance questions.

[Eugene Nahemow]

I am trying to come to a conclusion on drives for a '69 Classic 18 that I will be repowering.

If I decide to drop in a 400ci/400hp engine that I have what would be the preferred drive?

A Volvo280/290 or a Alpha SS? Are parts going to be a problem for the Alpha SS? It seems that Volvo parts are always around.

Are hydraulic steering systems (Imco, MM) overkill for these boats?

What about Bravo installations on the Classic 18?
Do they add too much weight?

Lastly(for now) what prop rotation L or R should be used for Port steering? If I'm not mistaken Alpha ss were all right hand.

Thanks.

[Tony]

The only thing I know for sure is that a port helm should have a LH spinning prop. Regarding drives, there are lots of Bravos on 18's, while 280/290's can handle the hp but are not very fast.

[MOP]

Consider the King Cobra also, its a real tough drive will handle 500hp. It is far more hydrodynamic than the Volvo.

[Eugene Nahemow]

What about parts for the King Cobra?

[Formula Jr]

Counter rotating props.
It dosen't get any better. Bravo III or Volvo DP. Small boat lots of power. When you are flying across the big ones, you will not have to correct.

[HyperDonzi]

This is just a suggestion...Take a look at the ZZ3 or ZZ4 small block crate motors. The ZZ4 has 405 ft/lb of torque. I talked to someone who did the swap many times, all boats still run perfect. (First was a ZZ3 into a skiboat with a 125shot of Nitrous in 1991, Alpha drive too!!) If that isnt strong enough for you, roller rockers and a cam swap will get you to over 425hp.

Drives, an Alpha will take it, but you would need to be really careful taking off and in rough water, have to be really careful. Look for a Bravo. The Alpha SS, neat little things, but you break something, parts are hard to come by...

Good luck,
Tommy

[Eugene Nahemow]

Hyper,
Engines aren't my problem. I've got plenty of those. It's deciding what to hook up to them.
Thanks for the responses.

[KRAVEN]

Go with the Bravo 1 xz drive,larger bearings and shaft.My scorpion came with this drive and I am very pleased with its performace.It has the low water pick-up so you can trim it fairly high.
DONZI + WATER = :D

[smoothie]

Congrats! on your new project Eugene,as far as the steering goes I guess it depends on how fast you plan on going,they say you should have it for going over 70 mph,because of play in the cable and outdrive and for safety reasons,If your cable breaks at that speed kiss your behind good bye,I like it for the rough waters ,the boat doesnt seem to dance around as much with it.

[Eugene Nahemow]

Smoothie,
Thanks.
My boat was getting lonely. She needed someone to play with!

http://www.donzi.net/photos/ENahemow35.jpg

So we went out and found a distant relative. :D

http://www.donzi.net/photos/ENahemow696.jpg

I will probably will try and take the boat up to and beyond 70. This is why I've been fighting the drive issue. I don't think the Volvo will get me there and I'm afraid that I might blow up the Alpha. I am not hard on my equipment but I do try and push them from time to time.

I hope you are enjoying the cig. I was close on your heels on that one.

[Ranman]

Eugene, based on your most recent response, I sa Bravo all the way. They are good performing drives and can easily handle up to 500 HP and beyond pushing a Classic Donzi. In my eyes, there's no better bang for the buck.

[Rootsy]

parts are not difficult to find for the SS... you can still purchase all of the internal parts, mostly because most of them come from the regular old alpha.. the only REALLY difficult part to find is the drive shaft housing... it is unique to the SS... and therefore very rare.. it basically MAKES THE SS... since you can bolt an Outboard CLE to the SS driveshaft housing the propshaft gearcase is not that rare if you nuke it...

if you are willing to take the investment and want reliability and strength then go with a bravo and toss a 2 inch imco shortie on it... raise the X on the hull an inch when you cut the new hole and mount the motor and you'll be right where an SS would put you and no need to worry bout breakage with 400 hp...

[boatnut]

Eugene, wow, another '69 18 on Clear Lake!! I got your email but couldn't open the pictures. Nice boats! Some comments on your question(s).

First of all, I'm glad you are plowing this ground because we want to do something with our '69 18 also. Ours is totally stock now including original gelcoat and all running gear.
The first choice is whether to rebuild the H&M 302 Ford/Volvo and have a like new 57 MPH boat or go with a Chevy/Bravo or ?? and approach 70??
Pros and Cons to both. It is amazing but this Donzi still runs well with 34 years on the engine and drive (3 valve jobs, engine lower end and drive never apart, other than a u-joint and shaft seal)

I talked to someone a couple of years ago at Koncoti that had a restored 18' classic that I think was a yellow color (I might be wrong about the color) and he repowered with a dual prop Volvo package. He was very disappointed with the hulls performance and handling with the dual prop volvo -- said it had too much lift or something and never did run as well as the older Volvo??
Therefore, I would be concerned about dual prop drives on the 18 (of course they might have positioned the drive wrong but why take the chance).

[CDMA]

E,

Go bravo all the way. I have run a Volvo ( no trim), an alpha ( well 2 of them,
blew one up with 260 hp eek! ), and the bravo. By far the best has been the bravo. With 400 dyno hp the boat runs low 70's with a hydromotive and mid 70's with a mirage. I think there still is some left in the hydro too.

The more I learn the more I think the higher X dimension is key. I am up 1" on the transom and would love to go up another 2 with an IMCO...or then again we could just go arneson.... wink

Seriously the bravo was the best money I ever spent on the boat. The only real negative to it is $$$$. Runs well, real reliable... as my mom says standing right here " anyone else would be happy...but not my son...there is always more"

Also I ran an RH alpha on a LH helm one year...no thanks. I didn't have tabs which would have helped but the boat was almost undriveable when I was alone. Never again...

Chris

Higher X...must go higher

[Eugene Nahemow]

Chris,
That is what my little voice has been saying to me. Bravo, Bravo, Bravo.

I believe I saw someone posting a Bravo with a polished shorty for sale recently.
Here I go again! No more steak dinners. Break out the Raman noodles. :D

What the hell have you brought home now!

[Eugene Nahemow]

Chris,
That is what my little voice has been saying to me. Bravo, Bravo, Bravo.

I believe I saw someone posting a Bravo with a polished shorty for sale recently.
Here I go again! No more steak dinners. Break out the Raman noodles. :D

What the hell have you brought home now!

[Forrest]

It all boils down to how much do you want to spend.

Volvo Aquamatic - $ - by far least expensive and easily handles 400+ HP.

Alpha SS - $$ - $2500 will usually get you one, plus you'll need to buy a transom assembly, bell housing, coupler, and trim pump, and you will be as fast as it gets with a stern drive. It will handle the 400 HP - just don't beat on it.

Bravo - $$$ - What does a Bravo drive and complete transom assembly go for these days? Not as fast as the SS but handles more power than the SS, and with a small block, you can beat on it if you want.

Bravo w/Imco shorty - $$$$ - expensive, fast, and reliable. Don't forget to add a good steering system as well. Best thing short of an Arneson ASD6, which cost about the same as the Bravo/Imco w/steering system when done.

King Cobra - $$ - No longer made, but may be an economical option if you can find a deal on one. Equal to a Bravo in performance and capacity.

Volvo SX - $$$ - You'll probably have to buy it new. The SX is an upgraded version of the King Cobra.

Volvo DP - $$$ - May not be the fastest, but . . .

Arneson ASD6 - $$$ to $$$$ - doesn't get any better in terms of performance and reliability. Integrated steering system eliminates the need to buy a third party steering system. Depends on how you buy it will determine the final cost. Used will save a ton of bucks, and they are out there, just ask Chris! You will need a BW transmission and a special transom box built by Arneson if you want neutral and reverse. :D Hay, isn't Arneson right there in SF?

[Eugene Nahemow]

Forrest

Howards's shop was around the corner from my office in San Rafael. I moved last year so I can't walk to his shop anymore. :(

On Memorial day, July 4th and Labor Day he has his crew tow the boat up to the lake we live on. They spend the weekend at my ex-business partners house. He loves to give rides! :D

I will also be using this boat to tow my son skiing and tubing. The Arneson drive would be a problem. I think I am going to search for a Bravo. I have time. I don't expect to have this fully completed until Spring 2004.

[MOP]

Most every drive listed is up on Ebay, the prop issue with the Cobras is not as bad as it is made out to be unless you only want OEM props. Most good shops can make up what you want. If you don't mind a tad of speed loss consider the dou's they track great and give a super hole shot.

[NoCal22Donzi]

I'm a newbie and wanted to add my name to the Clear Lake Ca. Classics! Eugene & Boatnut, I keep mine at my 22 Classic at our weekend getaway on Windflower Point. Hope to see you guys over at Konacti! Not suppose to be many classics out west but there are at least 5 on ourlake. Hope to C ya.

[Eugene Nahemow]

NoCal,
Welcome to the site!
I saw a couple of Donzi 22's at Konocti last year.
One was a white and teal and I saw a newer red & white 22. I saw this same red 22 at Marine Unlimited in Rohnert Park gettting fitted with a Procharger and headers. eek!
Is one of those yours?
My Magnum was at Marine Unlimited for about two months. We have a weekend retreat in Sunrise Shore.

You won't see my Donzi this year but if you see me in my Magnum give me a holler. I also boat on the lake in a 65 Keaton that is totally restored. It has a white hull with white upholstery and teal piping.

Hope to see us all on the lake soon.

[NoCal22Donzi]

Eugene;

There's a nice yellow/white 22 up there too. You must have seen mine before I went through it. It was teal and white, but I had Down Under in Kelseyville repaint a beautiful Royal blue and white. The hull and gel coat are perfect in everyway now. I also had Bilt Rite do the new interior with royal blue stripes in both front and back seats. They did a great job and also did a killer job on a new carpet. I highly recommend them. Malcolm at Down Under likes the 22's better without the chining stripe so we removed it and the hull looks alot cleaner and better without it. I visited Marine Unlimited in R.P. They are gonna work on exhaust and procharger when I can part with it. Maybe in the winter. I'll be at alot of shows at Konacti this summer I'll look for your Magnum. Matt

[Eugene Nahemow]

Matt,
I've known Malcom for about 12 years. We usually have drinks on Saturday around 3:30 at the Saw Shop in Kelseyville.
Malcolm does great work.
There looks like there are going to be some good shows this year at Konocti. I already have tickets for Johnny Lang and Boz Scaggs.
I'll be looking for your boat.