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SHARKEYMARINE
09-21-2002, 10:27 PM
Is your state next???

Whether you're a high performance boater or a fisherman, you have to read this!!!

Who wants to head to the ocean at 30 mph???

I knew it would eventually come to this.

Now is the time for all powerboaters to speak up and attend these meetings and make your voice heard.

Otherwise, you are going to have to get up alot earlier to get out to your favorite fishing spot.

PUBLISHED 9-21-02 ASBURY PARK PRESS

State hears call for slow boating

Published in the Asbury Park Press 9/21/02
By KIRK MOORE

STAFF WRITER

Deadly boating accidents have state legislators and the state Boat Regulation Commission looking to tighten the rules for recreational captains -- from a potential 30-mph speed limit on coastal bays during summer weekends, to requiring more mandatory safety education for new skippers.

At its first public hearing yesterday, a new state Assembly task force on boating safety heard a call for licensing of boat operators from Rosemary Decker, whose husband Thomas, 58, of Clementon, was among those lost when a 60-foot Viking yacht ran over his 20-foot boat two years ago.

"My husband and three of his friends were in a horrific accident," Decker said. "He had a lot of experience. I never worried about him. He was very safety conscious" and had taken a number of Coast Guard courses as a private captain, she said.

The other captain, Barry M. Flowers, 64, faces a six-month jail term and six-figure fine when he is sentenced in Ocean County Superior Court next week.

"The man didn't mean to kill three people that day. But he did," Decker said. That her husband, a seasoned boatman with 40 years' experience on the water, could be run down by accident shows the need for mandatory licensing, she told legislators.

Meanwhile, the Boat Regulation Commission this week took a first step toward a speed limit on the state's tidewater bays and inlets.

The commission, a long-standing advisory panel to the state attorney general, last Wednesday asked its lawyer to draft "a submission to set an inshore speed limit," said commission Chairman Roger K. Brown of Brick.

Brown declined to reveal much detail about the proposal, which is still being drafted. But John Shanahan of the New Jersey Marine Trades Association said the commissioners discussed setting a maximum 30-mph limit on the bays, from Raritan Bay to Cape May.

As discussed Wednesday, such a speed limit would be in effect only on a seasonable basis and on certain days -- perhaps May to September, from sunrise Friday to sunset on Sundays, Shanahan said.

Shanahan said the trades group -- which represents boat dealers, marina owners and others in the boating industry -- is not taking a position on speed limits yet.

"We want to promote boating as a safe activity," said Shanahan, who added that captains are required under Coast Guard rules to keep "reasonable and prudent speed."

The boat commission took up the speed-limit issue because of concerns voiced by boaters, particularly on the bays, Brown said.

"You've got personal watercraft now that can do 70 mph, catamarans that can go 100 mph," Brown said. "If you want to go that fast, you should do it out in the ocean."

The new Assembly task force was organized recently, in the last few days. Its enabling legislation is to be introduced Monday, said Assemblyman Jeffrey W. Moran, R-Ocean.

Moran, a sailor from Beachwood, said he will push personal watercraft legislation that would widen the required safety margin between riders and swimmers, docks and other boats from 50 feet to 100 feet.

The task force chairman, Assemblyman and boater Robert Smith, D-Gloucester, said he asked for the group to be formed after discussions with Rosemary Decker. Other families in Smith's district have suffered calamities on the water, including the loss of three brothers when their high-speed catamaran capsized off Sea Isle City this year.

Overall, boating accidents in the state are declining -- even with boat registrations soaring during recent years. But 2002 is shaping up as a fairly deadly year, said State Police Sgt. Roy Bubigkit. So far, 17 people have died in 13 accidents -- the latest being a man whose boat ran into a bridge abutment on Lake Hopatcong on Thursday night, he said.

Lake Hopatcong is one waterway subject to a 30-mph daytime speed limit -- and State Police say they enforce it with radar.

Smith said he was not aware of the boat commission's speed proposal. That came as no surprise to Brown. His little-known advisory board has been initially overlooked in years past when the Legislature focused on boat issues. It was the commission that drafted the rules for boat noise and restricting personal watercraft from the Point Pleasant Canal, Brown noted.

The task force will hold public hearings this fall and winter, and look to issue recommendations and possibly a legislative package in February, Smith said.

"Ultimately, it will be some sort of compromise," Smith said. "It won't be an extreme proposal."

Kirk Moore: (732) 557-5728

BigGrizzly
09-22-2002, 08:37 AM
Unfortunately I know where this is coming from since I lived in the area for 36 years and watch dangerous and Discourteous boating evolve from the mid 1950's. The intelligence of the weekend boater has decreased with the speed and horsepower increase of the boats. In 1965 there were few 50 mph boats. Now every dumb A$$ that has more dollars than sense has one and a PWC. We all saw it coming but were hoping brainpower would rule but it just got worse. Does this sound familiar, after trying to explain to someone the right way "You don't own this water"! Just look at the Manasquan Inlet on a Saturday, Barnegat, or Atlantic City inlet. I don't like any more than anyone else. Look at this. "Slow speed NO wake" what does this mean? It means NO wake everyone violates this to some degree! During the last years Sarasota Donzi Scott B, and I were the lasts ones home, why - because almost everybody was violating this and jocking for position instead of running single file through the waterways and staying together. These are experienced boaters? We brought this upon ourselves and this makes me more upset then some one-sided law official!

fasttrucker
09-22-2002, 09:07 AM
this sounds alot like the suv news reports.the politics of the liberals,ie envirormental wackos.they will use safety as a cover for their real objective,that is to ban anything that burns fuel.u know global warming.they get this poor women,who lost her husband to do their dirty work.in the name of safety.true i had a jet ski turn right in front of me when i was towing a skier on a lake.those things are unsafe if u dont pay attention.we have a weekend +holiday speed limit on our river leading into the bay.i can deal with it.but if they slow down the open bay,then ill break the law.as sammy h. said "i cant drive 55!" :p

Fish boy
09-22-2002, 09:14 AM
I think I have to agree with BigGrizzly about bringing it on ourselves. I've grown up around boats (sold, worked on, built, played with) all my life. In the past few decades, I've seen the waterways of Florida become the the playground for the dumb and dumber.

Anyone ever seen an idiot pull up to a dock, ram the bow into the pilings and begin yelling at anyone else in the boat or on the dock for causing the collision?? How about the guy that drives past a moored vessel, or worse, a fueling vessel on a plane and causes the boat to repeatedly crash against the dock?? I could keep going, but the point is that there are way too many bone heads on the water who do not know how to run a boat.

I am the last one that wants licenses, or more regulation when I am trying to enjoy my donzi. However, It seems that more and more people are buying boats and think that just because there are no lines painted on the water, or traffic lights, they can do what ever they want, when ever they want, no matter who gets hurt.

I saw the impact that speed limits in Pinellas county caused in the late 80's. The performance boat industry was almost destroyed. Who wants people to lose jobs? Who wants to idle for a half hour to get from one place to another, and then be limited to 30 mph when you can finaly power up? Who wants to be punished for the sins of the idiots? Not me.

Unfortunatley, it is not the courteous or knowledgeable boater that is the danger, it is the guido in the speedo traveling 70 in a manatee area, or the weekend warrior who thinks he does not go boating enough to really need to learn how to operate a boat,...

I do not want to be regualted, have speeds moderated, or have a drivers license, but as ususal, the morons ruin it for the rest who do not have to have our hands held.

harbormaster
09-22-2002, 10:37 AM
In my area we have no lack of water police. On any given weekend I can see 6 police boats prowling the waters (in a lake about 3 miles long and 1/2 mile wide. It is really a pain in the ass. One that that is cool, We have some young coast guard Auxillary guys on PWC's that patrol the lake and bay. They are especially tough on the unsafe PWC riders.

Gearhead99
09-22-2002, 10:57 AM
Dejevu, Sounds like the 60's all over with the "Total Performance" that we had with the muscle cars. The public demanded the power and the manufacture put it out to satisfy the demand.

Then everything came to a screaming halt. Insurance rates went through the roof and the first oil embargo. You could buy "many" large engine muscle cars by the pound in 1973.
You can feel it coming to the boating industry.

Also, if you've been on the St. John's river, here in Central Florida, they have a posted speed limit on most of the portion from Sanford to Deland. It is 25 mph. And the area's that aren't 25 mph are "No Wake". Manatees have caused this though. But, the out come is the same. The fishing on the St. John's is just about gone. Pleasure boating is way down too.

Finally, we the boating public should do all we can to correct this. Govern ourselves and our friends. If not "Big Brother" will be here doing for you at a hefty price.

Get off soapbox now.

Scott, just north of Widermere.

Formula Jr
09-22-2002, 03:48 PM
Fundimentally I think it has to do with the level of investment you are willing to put into boating. Being on the water is an enjoyable semi-weekly or monthly event for some, and for others it is a lifestyle and a culture onto itself. For those that have made boating a lifestyle choice, I see no great difficulty in appling for and receiving a captain's USCG certificate. Yes, it will decimate the marine industry. But it will render needless, the path we are going down now. I live out in the sticks, so to speak, and the annoyance of bad boaters is pretty much limited to clueless PWC operators and teens with wake board boats. But when I visit The Bay and my old boating areas back east, I can see the change immediately in the lower general level of piloting skills. I don't even like to go into Annapolis on a warm summer weekend. The speed limits slow the chaos down, but its all still there at 6 knots.

Another componet is that a huge rift has formed between the sailboat community and the powerboat community. We are in seperate camps now. I'll wave at a sailboater from my go-fast at idle, and more likely than not now, I will get the cold stare or the finger. They as a group, were the first to sense that a growing number of powerboaters didn't understand right-of-way rules or the basic courtesy one extends to another boater. And yes, there are bad sailboaters too - but far less than powerboaters. I do as much of both as I can, Sailing and Powerboating. I enjoy both.

On a sailboat, the real level of incompatence out there becomes much clearer. And they, as a community, are getting more radical, political and less inclusive towards powerboats. If you hang around the marinas in the evening and join in with some sailors over drinks, you will hear and sense the level of venom in their voices and stories. In that community, the average powerboater has been reduced to a buffoon - a wild idiot, deserving of draconian legislation.

Powerboaters HAVE to clean up their act, and do it soon. Cause the Sailboaters have already taken the high moral ground and are becoming very organized politcally.

There are two clear paths legislation can take. We can stay with the current system of voluntary education and suffer the development of a "Transportation System" approch to recreational boating; open water speed limits, power boat lanes, etc, or we can cull out the bad boaters by upping the skill levels required to a point that lazy people will simply not want to pay the price in time or money to be on the water. The second option, retains the aspects of individual responsibility and freedom-to-choose we have all enjoyed in the past. Its a hard pill to swallow in any case, but by doing nothing, powerboaters will lose control of the agenda. And we will get laws we didn't craft or want. If we can take the lead, then maybe we can also create some linkage and get rid of some of the proscriptive rules already in place.

There's no easy way back to the "good 'ol days."

Eddie1823
09-22-2002, 05:02 PM
I've been saying that the speed limits would be coming for several years now, and it appears they are on the horizion. The problem is that all you need to buy a boat is a fat check book. Common sense, knowledge of the water, rules of the road have nothing to do with a persons ability to buy a boat if they have the money. This problem goes far beyond go-fast speed boats. In my experiance, the problem is more so with the 30 to 40 foot coctail cruisers. Many of these people have never owned a boat before and this is going to be the new weekend house. This is fine until they untie the ropes. Most but not all people who own a boat capable of 60 plus mph speeds have pushed their boats to the edge and know where it is and have learned not to put themselves into danger especially when the water ways are busy. Unfortunatly it goes back to the walking and chewing bubble gum theory. Some people can do it and others can't. This is going to mess up the lives of a lot of us who can do both, have a high speed boat and run it responsibly. You cannot legislate common sense. On your way to work tommorow, let me know how many idiots you encounter that have drivers licences. For this reason I'm not sure boat licences are the answer either. PWC licenses are required in many states now including my own, some of the idiots are gone, but most still remain. If any law is to be passed, it needs to give the police the power to instantly suspend the driving privlege of a person they feel is unsafe to operate either a boat or a car. Education will help but it will not solve the problem of this is my ship and I'll do as I damn please. The mindset of these people causing the problem IS the problem. I don't think any of us wants a speed limit and maybe we need to do what the blow boaters are doing, explain where most of the problem is with the coctail cruisers. The police instantly go for the speed boat with thru hull exhaust and makes a lot of noise but very little wake when on plane. The coctail cruiser on the other hand make no noise but throws off 3 foot swells. We're being put into a guilt by association position which is not right. We need to stand up for ourselves.

Formula Jr
09-22-2002, 06:03 PM
Eddie, you have missed my point. I probably didn't state it well enough. There is a divide and conquer mentality right now that looks at specific problem areas. This is a bandage approch and that avenue is keeping bad boaters on the water. Cause as long as the problem is "with them" we will get laws that apply to all of us, to control, "THEM." This is where powerboaters can take the agenda lead. Lets say, the Powerboat community comes out and pushes for a USCG test for ALL boaters; sail and power and linked it with the permanet, irreversable removal of speed limit laws, and what ever else we want, where we go back to the rules of responsible wake, good judgement and personal responsibility. The "clicks" will then have no higher ground to speak of. Cards are dealt, the pot is high, and this is our bet, a bet we are willing to live with if we lose and must start studying for the Captain's Certification. The beauty of this is we can ask for what ever we want, cause there is no valid augument against anything we will trade, for undergoing the certification in the name of safety. Anyone that says - "well you can't have that", will be run over by popular sentiment. And the Sailboat guys will be right by our sides on this one. They will be confused, but on our side.

There are other sites on the internet that will aurgue against any sort of cerification, some are run by people that have a vested interest in keeping stupid people on the water. Its their business to save them.............. for a fee..........

Hardonzi
09-22-2002, 07:07 PM
I still say the best boaters are the "POWEREBOATERS" most of us know the price you pay for being un-informed,un-skilled and having an I could care less attitude. I along with many others have alot $$$$ tied up in these vessels not to mention dealing with Insurance companies.I would say most are very aware and qualified to operate boats at high rate of speeds.Commonsense is everything,and if you lack it it will weed u out real fast. I agree if u have no boating exp. you should not be able to operate these high- HP applications till u have passed a driving class.Performance boating is a fun sport, but alot of US are whinning that the other guy is not capable to run with us. I now the powerboat club I`m with has very qualified boaters and I nor them have a problem running 100 ft side by side in poker runs.Sometimes its unfortunate that people and property will pay a price,but thats the chance u take when u run high speeds.If u can`t accept that maybe u need to buy a sailboat.This sport requires 100% focus and concentration,not to mention commonsence.Safety is always the number one concern!!!!Just cause I blow by you at 90 does`nt make me an unsafe boater.Let the Marine Patrol worry about the ICW.You wanna fly in the ICW,go ahead it`s your a%*.Know whats around u at all times idle or on plane.We all need representation on these new laws so that it`s equal for all.Open water is open water.Some big power won`t even be able to get on plane at 35mph. wink BE SAFE

RPD
09-22-2002, 08:01 PM
I have to agree with Poodle... some years ago Alabama (where I live parttime) passed a license law and I said the same thing I'm reading here... "you can't legislate common sense.." But since then I've realized that many people, especially those tourists renting PWCs, don't know the rules of the road. When I come running up the sound at 50+ on my way to dinner and I pass the PWC rental concession, these guys have no idea who has the right-of-way, or what their responsibilities are if they have it....

Even the Coast Guard 6-pack license has no boat handling requirement, but, because those who get it are usually serious about their boating and because they learn the rules, they tend to be safe boat operators. So, although an on the water test would be better, just a written test covering rules of the road, boat handling, weather, emergency procedures, etc. would help get rid of a few of the clueless fools and tourists.

Formula Jr
09-22-2002, 08:40 PM
Even the Coast Guard 6-pack license has no boat handling requirement, but, because those who get it are usually serious about their boating and because they learn the rules, they tend to be safe boat operators. Yup. Book learning is no substitute for experience, but its a better start than the newbies that wing it now on the water. Unfortunately, a USCG certification can make you a "proffessional" boater, a reason I never got the qualification - "you should have known better than the idiot that hit you" kind of legal theory. But if its the standard for operation , there is no basis for that. You were, or you were not, qualified to pilot a boat. That will place all the legal stuff on an even deck. Right now, it is in your best interests to not get a Captain's License. Thats how scewed up it has gotten,cause of "Them."

harbormaster
09-22-2002, 09:41 PM
Owen is right. If you have a captains license and are a non driving passenger on a vessel that is at fault when involved in an accident, you are a liable party. Why? Because you were the only licensed captain aboard.

florida gator
09-23-2002, 08:49 AM
Licensing will not work. It would be too easy to actually get a license, and they can not teach common sense.

Forrest
09-23-2002, 10:20 AM
"Licensing won't work" . . . " You can't legislate common sense" . . . Well, you can bet that something is going to happen, especially at the rate the recreational boating population is increasing along with the increase in boating accidents. Yea, the powerboat and PWC industry can park lobbyists in every state capital during every legislative season and fight for the status quo, but it will ultimately be a loosing battle for them. I'm with the 'poodle on this one and I too think that the powerboat manufacturers and dealers, as well as the State, should take some responsibility to insure that the purchaser of a power boat displays a minimum level of competency. Maybe a certificate such as a specialty type of powerboat license could be issued upon sucessful completion, such as basic (under 20' and under 30 MPH), Yacht, PWC, Under 25' performance (includes bass boats), and over 25' performance.

Basically, if you want to fight for the status quo, it comes down power boaters vs. the rest of the world. Guess who has the biggest population? That's right, the rest of the world who along with many power boaters sees boating accidents, injuries and deaths, chopped-up Manatees, and hears obnoxious engine noise with they go to relax at the water's edge.

This not a liberal vs. conservative issue either. Here is a good example why it's not. Over on Offshoreonly.com there is a guy from Brevard county who is constantly fighting the speed limits put in place due to Manatee concerns, and after reading up on the issue, I think that he and his group is probably right on the issue. They fight hard and long trying to get the speed limits removed through Sykes Creek, the Barge canal, and elsewhere in Florida, and they win a battle here and there, but in the end, they will loose and they will loose for a simple reason. Right or wrong, there are vastly more people who love manatees and who have never set foot on a boat in their life than there are power boaters with a speed limit concern in Sykes Creek and the Barge Canal, or anywhere else in Florida for that matter. Do these people like Jimmy Buffet? You bet! Do these same people see prop scars on the back of the friendly Manatee? Yes they do, and that's all that it takes to convince them that there is boating problem and that the boating problem is harming what they like. Do they really don't care that it takes Dean and his buddies 45 minutes to get his new 33 Powerplay to the Atlantic from his nice canal-front home? Hell no. Are all these people a bunch of tree huggin' liberals? Not really. Now, do you really think JEB Bush and the conservative Florida Legislature is going to jump into this issue one way or another - especially so close to elections? In fact, they always stay as far away from this issue as possible. It's a loose, loose situation. You "save" the Manatee - it's great for lots of votes, but you are out with large boating and marine construction industry in Florida. On the other hand, you say "the hell" with the Manatee and you just lost more than a truck load of votes to Bill McBride.

BTW, I lived in Brevard County (Cocoa Beach) back in 1980s and there was a Manatee issue then as well as speed limits on Barge Canal and Sykes Creek.

End of rambling. :D

mjpcowboy
09-23-2002, 10:47 AM
We take a caculated risk in everything we do on a daily basis. You have no ability to take the "accident factor" out of daily activities. Just because you have a "license" does not keep you free from making a mistake. The problem is lack of common sense in a certain segment of our population. I have not seen many things that state or federal involvement has improved, it usually only causes another layer in which we all must live regardless of the necessity or outcome. Speed limits in some states has virtually killed the performance market however the accidents have continued. Personally my boat at 25mph is a much greater risk than when I am on plane at 78mph since I am unable to bring the nose to get a look at what is going on in front of me. No more regulation is necessary, everyone needs to just pay attention what is going on around them. Just my $.02 Rick

florida gator
09-23-2002, 11:07 AM
At least, like Forrest pointed out, you folks north of Florida do not have the manattees to contend with. The state and federal govt just took "emergency action" to close down (no entry zones) a popular boating area near hear. It is going to get worse all over this state if we don't ban together & speak up.

McGary911
09-23-2002, 11:21 AM
Another Death in NJ, PWC style. (http://www.app.com/app2001/story/0,21133,621247,00.html)

Now things like THAT aren't going to help the cause.

There are so many people based factors that will make legislation like this tough to avoid. Boaters do not have the skills, and refuse to learn them. Licensing (must show conpetence, not just a rubber stamp) may help. But the problem is boaters would have to use this knowledge. Even with the knowledge\skills, if the person is going to be an inconsiderate a$$hole and ignore the laws anyway, the problem will remain. Look at the roads as a good example. Everyone knows how to use signals, stop at stop signs, etc....but they choose not to do it, because they don't care. The same will happen on the water. I know that I'll get to the dock quicker if i blast through a no wake zone, but I don't. There are a lot of people that say "screw it" and get to the dock 10 minutes sooner.
Is more laws\enforcement the answer? Maybe it will help a bit initially, but it never takes long for enforcement as a safety tool, to turn to enforcement as a revenue generator.
Common sense? Even some people that have it, will choose not to use it. Example. A diver 2 years ago chose to dive in front of the only public boat ramp on my river. 25 min later when he surfaced, he admitted that it wasn't smart, but 2 years before he found a nice ring down there.?!? About 5 boats lined up for this ramp while he sifted though the muck. 1 boat almost ran the diver over because they didnt know what the diver flag meant. You can learn that from a Van Halen album cover!

People are the weak link. Lazy and selfish, they wont take the time to learn, and if they do, there's a good chance they will choose not to follow the rules.

BTW. I really dont think a speed limit will fix any of the above things, just make good, responsible boaters suffer. It's merely a feel good band aid cure that sounds good coming from regulators/politicians.

WHEW! thanks for the rant time........

Forrest
09-23-2002, 11:48 AM
Gator, boaters in your area have more than a fight on their hands since Crystal River's tourist industry is directly tied to the viewing of Manatees.

Also, I might add that I'm not worried about Rick (mjpcowboy) at 25 or 78 mph, or for that matter, most anyone else on this board. Well, I haven't seen Hyperboy behind the wheel yet! Anyway, like stated above by 'poodle and others, it's the guy that can get a loan or stroke a check and doesn't have a clue about power boating handling and safety is who I'm worried about.

ALLAN BROWN
09-23-2002, 11:56 AM
At the Miami, Fl., speed limit meetings, in a "show-and-tell" vote, more powerboat owners voted in favor of the 7 mph speed limit than opposed it. We (hi-perf guys) are a pimple on the butt of general boating, and they hate our guts. Too noisy, too dangerous, we come too close, etc. There is no end to it! My kids got their wings behind Beer Can Island. They skiied all summer, with two boats. No you can't even get on plane there. Wanna ski? Get in the Intracoastal, where the speed limit is 30 mph, or the ocean. Does that make sense to you?

JP BRESCIA
09-23-2002, 01:06 PM
I am not familiar enough with the exact history, but did the auto industry contend with the same issues in it's infancy? I can't help but think the need for some regulation is due solely to the increased number of boaters in the past 10 years. I don't understand the point about "all you need is a checkbook." This has always been true. Even in the 1960's, all you needed was a checkbook.

Not to rag on the PWC's any more but I do believe they are the new "Gateway Drug" that leads to boat ownership. In the past, many folks would avoid the urge to buy a powerboat b/c of the huge step and responsibility. The PWC is just small enough for the first time hauler to feel comfortable about towing/launching, you can learn the mechanics of operation in a half hour, and the pricetag is reasonable enough that the hours of enjoyment to expense ratio favorable. A few years with a PWC and everyone in the family is ready to get something bigger. The PWC is just a stepping stone to larger powerboats. Many of the PWC operators we see today will be the powerboat owners of tomorrow.

I don't know what the solution is, but I would expect the problem may only get worse as the number of boat registrations is skyrocketing. I spent all of my summers on the bay and had my first boat at 13 years old. Like most new boaters, I had just enough knowledge to operate a boat but also just enough to be dangerous at the same time. Through experiece, reading and much trial and error, I have matured into a well rounded captain. There are many new boaters that lack the capacity and experience to have fun and be safe at the same time much like myself at 13. However when I was 13, the bay had 20 boaters on the weekend compared to 200 as it does today.

Rootsy
09-23-2002, 02:00 PM
There are speed limits in Michigan. Though not at drastic as elsewhere. Inland lakes and rivers unless otherwise posted are 55 mph. I also believe that certain places around the state within a certain distance of shore is also 55 mph unless otherwise posted. We also contend with the 90 dBA law and minimum age of 16 to operate PWC's.

My view on the whole thing is much like everyone elses.. a lot of uneducated, careless, immature, macho and irresponsible people with too many toys and not enough brains. I am in favor of a safe boater course. as a matter of fact i was required to take such a course in High School as part of health class... if i remember correctly it lasted 3 days, we had a marine div police officer, DNR officer as well as a rep from the USCG present and teach the topics and administer the exam. i still have the little blue permit saying i took it and passed. Whether this course is still given as mandatory or not i do not know.

the scenarios i witness are the "i'm invincible and irresponsible" or "i'm too drunk and stupid" or those too young, immature and irresponsible to be legally operating without an adult present. we especially have a problem with the latter and PWC's... As long as people want to be careless and immature then we are going to have folks moving for proposals for ways to govern the "bad apples" of the bunch.

mattyboy
09-23-2002, 02:01 PM
I agree with Scott B.
mandatory education and certification is a must!
you can not legislate common sense is also true.
but maybe you can get thru to some of these aholes
1. so aholes will be aholes , but with a license,and if the continue to be aholes they lose their license

2. locks keep honest people honest, thiefs are gonna steal no matter what, by this I mean maybe if you educate the unknowing maybe you reduce the numbers of aholesmaking them boaters and the ones that don't learn then see number 1
3. we need to police our own, I've made some mistakes and the error of my ways were pointed out to me by other boaters, now I don't make those mistakes
4. I would think the mfg's would support such legislation, which would help limit their legal liabilty( the dealers as well)

a quick story this year they put channel markers on the entrance to the arms of my lake, which only had no wake zone markers, the police didn't
even know what to do "Red Right returning" I told them they should sit there a tell the boaters who didn't know what to do but they would rather speed thru the no wake zone to tell others to slow down eek!

Matt

Paul Storti
09-23-2002, 07:15 PM
we all know licensing won't do a thing because it will never be done right.

Not to start a war with anyone but Madpoodle I'm in shock "Which brings on another issue, lack of water police because we are too cheap to fund them" you're kidding right??? You do your boating here in South Florida right??? There are 10 times as many cops on the water as are needed, and the departmental overlap is ridiculous. Lets see we have the Coast Guard, National Park Service, Florida Marin Patrol, Customs, Metro Dade Police and the local police of what ever town you are in or near, I can't remember the last time I got pulled over in a car, but I've been stopped for nothing more than ten times by these idiots just to see what i'm up to and the only ticket I ever got I beat in court because it was BS. Is a license going to make me a better boater? No. Will more police and stricter laws make boating less enjoyable? definitely! No matter what you do or what laws you pass there will always be stupid people.

Shanghied Again
09-23-2002, 08:30 PM
I made a few phone calls today and talked with a few political friends, The merry band of colitian folk have a long battle on front of them. Assemblyman Maran is a Sailboater and a Bias vote. So are the other people on this committee, They need powerboat people on this committee that will bre a positive force for the powerboat comunity to make this legal. The best way to fight this is a Petition placed in every Marine supply store on line, powerboat sales center and Marina. You must be a registered voter to sign a petition. They must be stopped before they start.

Gritz
09-23-2002, 09:29 PM
OK guys (I live in a license state) is this the solution?

For the first 5 years of boat operation:

Mandatory...........Bayliner
Mandatory...........Mercruiser 120 H.P.
Mandatory...........Alpha one (previously installed on 650 H.P. plus offshore racer).

I wonder if the Indians (Native Americans) with their canoes were pissed when those big ol' boats showed up on the horizon.

Seriously, I am amazed by the stupidity of todays boaters in general. On our lake it seems if you see water, it is assumed to be of adaquate depth for whatever (verified by the number of oil puddles I see under outdrives at the dry storage marina), but then we've had three people drown from vehicles off the bridge and none in boats so far this year. Maybe a course for 'crossing the bridge'?

RH
09-23-2002, 09:59 PM
Common sense these days is all to uncommon. I see so many people with the fat checkbook or the sign your life away for the next ten years and be the proud owner of the new powerboat or PWC. The marina operators pop them in the water for their demo ride and off they go to slam into the docks, or slam into me minding my own business and trying to enjoy the water. I know that some marinas do try to teach some basics, but we all know that most don't. I am one of the biggest promoters of less government and less rules, but we need to teach our new boating brethren some bare essentials to powerboating. If you havn't noticed, just watch how they act at a boat ramp. I grew up on the water and had my first boat at age 6. I had a leaking Crestliner aluminum boat with a 6hp Johnson that needed bailing twice a day. What a great way to learn about taking care of your boat and learning about seamanship in the middle of the cornfields of Iowa. We were taught the ways of the water and courtesies that are involved. Hell, I would have rather admitted to my father that I was bad in the sack rather than exlpain that I couldn't back a trailer at the ramp! The point is, we had parents that would kick our butts if they caught us doing something stupid and they taught us the rules, laws and encouraged us to take power squadron classes to continually learn and sharpen our skills. We all need to help ourselves and start from within to get control our own destiny.
My .02 worth.

RH
09-23-2002, 10:03 PM
Common sense these days is all to uncommon. I see so many people with the fat checkbook or the sign your life away for the next ten years and be the proud owner of the new powerboat or PWC. The marina operators pop them in the water for their demo ride and off they go to slam into the docks, or slam into me minding my own business and trying to enjoy the water. I know that some marinas do try to teach some basics, but we all know that most don't. I am one of the biggest promoters of less government and less rules, but we need to teach our new boating brethren some bare essentials to powerboating. If you havn't noticed, just watch how they act at a boat ramp. I grew up on the water and had my first boat at age 6. I had a leaking Crestliner aluminum boat with a 6hp Johnson that needed bailing twice a day. What a great way to learn about taking care of your boat and learning about seamanship in the middle of the cornfields of Iowa. We were taught the ways of the water and courtesies that are involved. Hell, I would have rather admitted to my father that I was bad in the sack rather than exlpain that I couldn't back a trailer at the ramp! The point is, we had parents that would kick our butts if they caught us doing something stupid and they taught us the rules, laws and encouraged us to take power squadron classes to continually learn and sharpen our skills. We all need to help ourselves and start from within to get control our own destiny.
My .02 worth.

PaulO
09-24-2002, 07:47 AM
Well,
I for one will be happy to see a national boat speed limit. Then I can stop spending countless thousands of dollars trying to make my boat faster than yours!!!
Just kidding of course,
PaulO

SHARKEYMARINE
10-23-2002, 05:44 AM
A copy of a letter from NJPPC:

Hello everyone,

I am writing to you because I thought you would want to know of an impending law that may affect the way you use your boat next summer on NJ waterways.

I am bringing this to your attention because the NJ State government is once again trying to protect us from ourselves by means of instituting a statewide speed limit of 30 MPH on all tidal waters within NJ territories. Tidal waters are waters that ebb and flow from the ocean. Basically all saltwater bodies of waters are considered tidal waters, except the ocean itself. If this new law were passed, the speed limit would go into effect next April 1st and would be in effect from Friday at sundown until Monday at sunrise.

There is a hearing on this matter during the first week of November and many people I have talked to people who want to help in some way. In order to help, you need to make your voice heard loud and clear by taking the time to write a letter. An Attorney has been retained by NJ Performance Powerboat Club to speak on behalf of performance boaters and he is asking for your assistance by composing a letter that explains your view on the new law. All sectors of the marine industry will be represented at the hearing. Local marinas, performance boat centers, gas retailers, boat manufacturers and boating clubs will all be well represented at this meeting so your presence is not needed but your voice is. Your voice is what the Attorney needs to bolster his case. We know that sailboaters will be writing letters to support the law; we need to counter their voice.

Here is what to do. Please send a letter to me at njppc@aol.com. Your letter will be presented to the local press and the committee of five people who will ultimately make this decision that will affect you for the rest of your life.

The attorney feels that we should not argue that 30 is too slow but 60 is OK. That is a losing battle because the committee may then decide that 40 is fast enough. We don't want to argue what speed is the right speed; we want to suggest that if the committee is truly attempting to make boating safer, then they should sponsor legislation that would mandate a boating license course and test. Currently a boat license is needed on fresh water lakes. However, anyone over 13 years old can get one by paying an extra $2 when a car driver's license is renewed. We are suggesting a classroom style course similar to the current Power Squadron or Coast Guard course. This is something that should have been done a long time ago. They have done it for Jet Ski's, why not boats?

Please write a letter that contains the following items:

Your name.
Your address. - You must be a NJ resident or do your boating in NJ
Your age.
Your profession.
Relationship to boating. - What it means to you and your family.
Why you oppose a speed limit.
Effect a speed limit would have on you.
Alternative recommendation, such as education or licensing.

Items you might want to touch on in your letter:

Boating is currently safe.
How accurate is your speedometer? Do you have one at all?
Boating at 30 is unsafe - low visibility, huge wake, engine strain, and poor fuel consumption.
This may cause fewer boats to be sold. - Do we really want to do anything that would have a negative effect on our economy now?
Loss of gas tax dollars to the State.
State could make money from licensing.
Low probability of enforcement. - Marine Police currently don't have radar guns nor the manpower to enforce this law.

Please pass this email along to everyone you know who is a NJ boater or who may become one in the future. Now is the time to be heard as later may be too late.

Letters are due by Friday, November 1st, 2002. If you send me a letter, then I'll keep you informed as things progress because I know you care about the outcome.

As I have taken the time to write to you, please take the time to make your voice heard. Please don't count on the "someone else" to take care of this for you. Please sit down and write a letter if you feel that the proposed speed limit may affect you. Please do so in a very respectful manner.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Dave Patnaude
njppc@aol.com

SHARKEYMARINE
11-06-2002, 11:30 PM
Forwarded by SHARKEYMARINE:
Meeting On Speed Limits "Summary"

Hello All!

Ahhhhhhhhh the NJ Blow Boater Comm.......I mean NJ Recreational Boating Commission...... just kidding!

We walked away from today's meeting feeling good about the meeting but also understanding that we have a long way to go.

Some positive points about the meeting:
* Everyone respected each other's opinions
* the commission members listened well
* we were armed to the hilt with letters and statistics
* only 1 tree hugger showed up
* no one lost their cool
* the commission admitted that they learned alot from our remarks, suggestions and factual data
* overall a very constructive meeting

Roger Brown openly admitted that the proposed speed limit is not the primary result of the tragedies that occurred this summer but because of complaints lodged this summer by Yacht Clubs and a few residents that live on the Metedeconk River (i.e. Mr. Verizon and his 17,000 sq ft yellow house).

The next step - the commission will review all of the facts, comments and suggestions that were made to them today. The have their next meeting in early January and we plan on attending to continue the fight. (the commission did not have any statistics to support their position - we did for ours! )

Now we move on the the Legislative front in Trenton where they are considering the same topic.

Keep the support flowing in the form of letters and we will keep everyone updated on our progress!
Dave Patnaude
President of New Jersey Performance Powerboat Club

FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack
11-07-2002, 03:34 PM
Quote: "PaulO,
You already won that race, I saw you running @ Lake George "

Uh, fellas, Lake George has a 45 mph speed limit (Yes, the WHOLE lake). Has had it for several years now.
Are we talking out of both sides of our mouths?
And before you jump all over me, let me confess that I too knowingly and intentionally break the law. I just haven't been caught, or should I say that I haven't pissed off anyone bad enough to make them want to catch me.
Every time I go out to "test" I'm very aware how fast and how loud (and offensive) I am. When I do run off the racecourse, I make it a point to go all the way around the lake in one shot so as not to loiter in any one area long enough to make a nuisance of myself. When I come back to the ramp, I'm always surprised NOT to find a noise ticket waiting for me. Someday that will end and then I will have some decisions to make.
Let me explain: While there's no speed limit on my home pond, at least not out in open water, there is a noise limit, and I shatter it every time out. Fortunately, I don't run often enough to test the patience of my neighbors. AND I don't run fast anywhere near other boats or the shoreline! But, like I said, one day some asshole is gonna call the cops on me and my freedom to enjoy my toy will be at an end. I am aware of this.
I am very much opposed to speed limits (on open water) and noise limits for that matter. I am however, in favor of rigorous enforcement of EXISTING laws that regulate behavior close to shore or other boat traffic.
If we can keep a lid on the idiocy where it matters, near our fellow boaters, maybe we can save the open water. If we don't, they'll just forgo the surgical solution in favor of the sledgehammer approach, then we'll all lose our freedom, like we did on Lake George, and all other NYS lakes.

In my warped humble opinion,
Eric

P.S. Sorry Poodle, I don't mean to pick on you. When I say "we're" talking out of both sides of our mouths, I mean all of us, myself included. Strange, how we spout off about idiot lawbreakers while breaking the law ourselves, because, well, of course WE'RE not idiots! What a tangled web we weave.

Gritz
11-07-2002, 09:03 PM
Hey guys,
Unfortinately we in Alabama are not so behind in all aspects of life.
As boaters we are cutting edge with some of the most stringent laws to be found on the books. However, with a max allowed of 86 DB at 5 feet behind the transom, I have fired off with my straight thru the transom exhaust right in front of the marine patrol and never had a problem.
There just may be a little forgiveness factor for an ol' DONZI. wink

SHARKEYMARINE
11-10-2002, 11:07 PM
Letter from NJPPC:

In the last few letters from the club we've communicated that a small but powerful boating regulatory committee was attempting to establish a 30 MPH speed limit on all New Jersey tidal waters. We asked for letters from the NJPPC membership and other interested boaters. While I'm pleased to say that we delivered about 30 letters to the committee on Wednesday - we're going to need your continued help to fight the fight to preserve our favorite form of recreation.

Nine NJPPC members and about 20 other concerned boaters attended the committee's public meeting on Wednesday. The bottom line is that our worst suspicions and speculations are most likely true with regard to the intent of the speed limit. The committee chairman made it very clear that "high-speed boats" were the focus of the speed limit and yes - there is unfortunately a sailboat versus powerboat element at work here. The speed limit is much less about promoting safer boating for all boaters then it is about addressing complaints made against high performance boaters (and perhaps power boaters in general for that matter). Despite the fact that we provided statistics showing that speed had very little relation to boating fatalities and that education is universally embraced as the best approach for improving safety, the chairman seems very intent on establishing speed limits to achieve his agenda. The committee has not done their homework - they have not studied where accidents have occurred or where boating violations have been written up. Unfortunately, they are reluctant to spend the time to make an informed assessment and then come up with a reasonable course of action. They believe that a "one size fits all" statewide speed limit is appropriate and they want to implement this in very short order. The idea that a statewide mandate could be made without proper information, evaluation and due diligence is very scary indeed. And I'm sure it would have been well on its way if we didn't intercede on Wednesday!

On the positive side, there was visible dissent among the committee members after hearing the view point of NJPPC, the NJ Marine Manufacturers Association and a few well-spoken individuals. I think we gave them many a reason to pause and reconsider if they really want to proceed ahead with a controversial speed limit when they have no supporting research and much opposition ahead. The chairman seemed committed however to restricting our performance boating, including Poker Runs, through speed limits. His intent was very clear and it's unlikely that he will back down unless we forge a strong, POLITICALLY based opposition.

Please contact your local representative and the key elected officials involved in boating safety initiatives listed below. Call them up, send a letter, send a fax, email - do whatever you can do to derail the speed limits being set by the five-person committee who were not elected. Tell your representative that the committee chairman is subverting a needed boating safety initiative by acting upon an anti-performance boat sentiment rather then addressing the real problems that can significantly improve safety on the water. Tell your representative that you want your voice heard and to consider the impact that this will have on the region's economy if thousands of power boaters decide to go to friendlier waters. Ask your representative to immediately look into this far-reaching mandate.

NJPPC will continue to attend the public meetings and to argue our case but we aren't going to be able to make speed limits go away without your help to rally the needed political opposition.

Join the fight today!

We'll continue to keep you informed.

Key New Jersey Representatives to contact (besides your local representatives)

ASSEMBLYMAN JEFFREY W. MORAN (Republican-9TH District)
Heading Assembly Panel On Safe Boating
620 W. Lacey Road Forked River, N.J. 08731
Phone Number: (609) 693-6700 Fax: 693-2469

Assemblyman Robert J. Smith, II (D) (Assistant Majority Whip)
DISTRICT OFFICE ADDRESS: 110-F Greentree Road Turnersville, NJ 08012
PHONE NUMBER: (856) 232-6700

Assemblyman James W. Holzapfel (R)
DISTRICT OFFICE ADDRESS: 852 Highway 70 Brick, NJ 08724
PHONE NUMBER: (732) 840-9028 E-MAIL ADDRESS AsmHolzapfel@njleg.org

Assemblyman Albio Sires (D)(Speaker)
DISTRICT OFFICE ADDRESS: 303 58th Street, West New York, NJ 07093
PHONE NUMBER: (201) 854-0900

SHARKEYMARINE
11-18-2002, 06:01 AM
Safety test for state's boaters discussed at panel meeting

Published in the Asbury Park Press 11/16/02By KIRK MOORE

STAFF WRITERCAMDEN -- The possibility of requiring boat operators in New Jersey to pass a safety test -- regardless of their age or boating experience -- emerged as the main theme at a public hearing before an Assembly task force on boating safety.

"There's no reason why mandatory licensing and education should not be required," said David Patnaude, president of the New Jersey Performance Powerboat Association, at yesterday's hearing. A proposal for 30 to 40 mph speed limits on coastal bays is misguided, because it may actually make it harder to safely maneuver high-performance speedboats, Patnaude told the panel of legislators meeting at Rutgers University here.

Since state boating laws were last changed in 1996, safety education has been required for two classes of boat operators: Anyone riding personal watercraft and operators of motor boats who were born after Dec. 31, 1978.That age limit was a compromise with recreational boaters who have traditionally resisted licensing. Assemblyman Jeffrey W. Moran, R-Ocean - an avid boater himself - said that was a mistake by the Legislature."There are days I go out there (on Barnegat Bay) and I turn around and come back," he said.During debate on the 1996 legislation, Moran said he thought: "We're not talking about a 35-year-old guy with a 25-foot boat. And these are the guys who are running me down."To receive safe boating certification in New Jersey, operators must complete an eight-hour instructional course, including a 50-question examination that requires 70 percent of the questions to be answered correctly, said State Police Trooper Jeff Andrus."It is comprehensive," he said, but "it is critical that all of the course material is covered."State police are continuing an investigation of one private boat safety instruction firm that is suspected of letting its students slide on some of its course material.Mandatory safety certification for boaters of all ages is advocated by Rosemary Decker, whose husband, Thomas, was one of three fishermen killed when a 60-foot motor yacht ran over his 20-foot boat off Beach Haven in October 2000.Decker appeared at yesterday's hearing with Charles Hartley, 79, her husband's friend and sole survivor of the crash. Yacht owner Barry M. Flowers, 63, is serving a six-month jail term after pleading guilty in September."The captain (Flowers) of that boat was making a claim we crossed in front of him," Hartley told the panel. "No. We were there for almost a minute."Assemblyman Robert J. Smith, D-Gloucester, chairman of the task force, asked Hartley to describe contributing factors to the accident."Speed," Hartley replied. "And there was no one at the controls. I was hoping he would make a slight turn to the left, or a slight turn to the right, or pull back on the throttles. But nothing happened. He wasn't there.

"Speed limits, as proposed by the state Boat Regulation Commission, would not have prevented that accident, nor the June 2002 capsizing of a performance boat off Sea Isle City that killed three brothers, said Patnaude, a Dover Township marine dealer and owner of a 37-foot performance boat.If the Legislature or boat commission propose rule changes, "they need to base it on facts," Patnaude said.And one fact to consider is the way performance boats ride at lower speeds, when their bows and long forward decks can rise up out of the water and make it hard for the helmsman to see what is in front of the boat, he warned."At 35 mph, the bow of my vessel has such an aggressive pitch that I would not be able to see over the bow if I wasn't 6 foot 7," Patnaude said.Any speed limit would be difficult for state police to enforce, because fiberglass boat hulls don't easily reflect police radar, Patnaude said, noting his club has experience trying to measure speeds at its own events.

Commission Chairman Roger K. Brown of Brick suggested his group and the Assembly panel meet over the coming months to discuss how they might coordinate their ideas for changing boat laws.Despite the warnings of powerboaters, Moran said he thinks "we've got to talk about speed limits. Unless we get off the dime and do something, it's just going to get worse."Brown has said the commission is now more inclined to consider speed limits only for specific areas of coastal bays and rivers. But William deCamp Jr., president of the environmental group Save Barnegat Bay, urged a baywide 30 mph speed limit.Accident statistics alone 'don't really describe the situation because some people won't go out there."Fear has taken them off the water," deCamp said.

Shanghied Again
11-18-2002, 07:32 PM
Please write your Assemblyman and copy a letter to save. Send a copy to the njppc@aol.com Now is the time for strength in numbers. Believe me the Sailboaters are going to hit us with there numbers and we must have the strength to fight back. We will be no different then the Florida Intercoastel. If we don't stand up now Powerboating in NJ will never be the same!
http://www.donzi.net/photos/FCivitano11.jpg

SHARKEYMARINE
11-19-2002, 03:44 AM
To Whom It May Concern:

As you saw in the recently e-mailed "Asbury Park Press" article, NJPPC
attended the NJ Assembly boating safety task force meeting on Friday Nov.
15. In summary, there has been some positive developments for NJPPC
performance powerboaters but we still have our share of obstacles ahead.
First the good news:

1. The non-elected Boat Regulation Committee will now be working with
(under!! the Assembly Task Force. The Assembly will need to follow proper
protocols for enacting safety measures. Fact finding, due process and
indeed "fair play" are now expected moving forward.

2. The Boat Regulation Committee will soon have another member, John
Shanohan, who has a much more balanced and comprehensive view point regarding
safety issues. John represents the NJ Marine Trade Association and is also
very strong proponent of boating education. We look to John to help make
the Boat Regulation Committee more responsive to the interests of all New
Jersey boaters.

3. Eighty percent of the meeting was devoted to boater education and the
idea of certification or licensing. Little time was devoted to discussing
speed limits.

4. The limited discussion around the need for universal speed limits was
not convincing and in fact the Assembly men seemed to draw the conclusion
that speed limits would be nearly impossible to enforce given the
ineffectiveness of radar on boat hulls and the Marine Police's limited
resources. Unlike the Boat Regulation Committee, they need to also
consider the practical aspects of what they carry forward.

5. We fully expect that mandatory boating education will be required for
all boat operators. While no one likes to be told that they need to go to
class to operate a boat - it's a small inconvenience considering it will
yield safer boating for all boaters alike. Licensing may also be required.
Once again an inconvenience but it will help keep the actual violators
accountable for their actions instead of holding the entire performance boat
community liable for the misdeeds of individuals.

We saw real strides toward promoting boating safety for all boaters.
Despite that speed limits have been repositioned as a less desirable safety
measure, they are still with us and most likely will be implemented to SOME
degree. That degree depends on all of our continued efforts. Now the less
positive news.

1. Someone or some group was trying to portray the Flowers accident at the
meeting as being SPEED related. Through questions and perhaps inadvertent
testimony, the sole survivor finally indicated that no one was operating the
60' boat at the time of the accident. His first statement was that high
speed (24 knots! caused the accident.

2. Boat Regulation Committee Chairman, Roger Brown, has realized that the
speed limit on all NJ tidal waters was too broad so he announced that he's
now considering only the Barnegat Bay area (the epicenter of New Jersey
performance boating!. We still have a fight ahead for our home waters
which could escape the purview of the State Task force if we aren't
diligent. Some speed limits are likely.

3. The "Save Barnegat Bay Association" continue to be very involved in
promoting the 30 MPH speed limit (except 7 x 24 x 365 days) and boating
safety is only a secondary consideration. The association indicated that
they have 1,200 members - they also have good political connections. We can
not underestimate this group's impact. While our respective opinions
differ, they have the same passion for their cause as we have for ours, they
have been around longer and they have more people then we have. They most
likely will get a some "bone" or concession from their involvement. The
size of the "bone" will be influenced by our competing efforts.

Conclusion:

The playing field has now been leveled and the political process should now
be in affect for everyone. We need to continue to voice our opinions to the
elected officials on the boating safety issue. Rest assured, the Save the
Barnegat Bay folks and sailing clubs are doing the same for their respective
viewpoints. Remember education, licensing and enforcement of the current
laws are the best roads to SAFETY - not unenforceable speed limits! Don't
let our opposition change the issue from safety to their special interests.

Thanks for your help,
NJPPC

harbormaster
11-19-2002, 07:03 AM
Would you New Jersey guys in that area like for me to do an online petition that boaters in that area can sign electronically? Give me the wordiage of what you want it to say and I will put it up. Could could then ralley all your boaters to fill out the petition. I could give somebody the results that could be presented to the legislators.

Greg K
11-19-2002, 07:26 AM
here's what you're up against... http://www.savebarnegatbay.org

harbormaster
11-19-2002, 07:40 AM
I looked at the save barnet bay site. They say they need a speed limit but never seem to say why.

That is typical. Hey do you new jersey guys have/want a website to do battle with these guys?

They give people who have a concewrn for the environment a bad name.

harbormaster
11-19-2002, 07:46 AM
EVERYONE need to write these guys. Even if you do not live in New Jersey.
Tell them that you were considering vacationing there but decided to to go elsewhere if they have a 30mpg speedlimit.

Then tell them why a 30mph speed limit is not high enough. If need help in composing your letter, Ask for it here on the registry .

Send your letters to:
Attention: Roger Brown, Chairman
New Jersey Boat Regulation Commission
C/O NJ State Police, Marine Services Unit
P.O. Box 7068
West Trenton, NJ 08628-0068

Do it today!!!

SHARKEYMARINE
11-24-2002, 10:27 AM
I have added a page to my site to keep up with the latest SPEED LIMIT UPDATES (http://pages.zdnet.com/sharkeymarine/sharkey/id30.html)

Blewbyu
11-24-2002, 07:22 PM
Pearls of Wisdom from an Old Buzzard:
As in driving situations,there is always the judgement factor....ie:anyone going slower than you is an idiot, anyone going faster than you is a maniac.
To the best knowledge of the U.S Coastguard,there has NEVER been a certified case of a lifejacket stored in a boat,landing upon either the driver or passenger of a capsized boat that wasn't wearing one.
Washington State boaters must be a cut above the rest.There has never been a recorded case of a Manatee being struck by any part of a boat in this state(or in British Columbia either).
Don't stand up to pee in an open boat.If you so choose however,for the sake of the comfort of others in the boat, don't pee into the wind.If you choose to both stand up, AND pee into the wind, wear a yellow life jacket.
Watch out for white horses in snowstorms.

Barry Phillips
11-26-2002, 09:26 AM
I have been in around boats all my life, my father tought me how to run our 1954 Chris when I was 9. It cauld do about 32 mph and I thought that was really fast, my first boat a 1954 11ft Sid Craft raceing runabout named SO-SLO which we timed at 36.2 mph with a 15hp Evenrude was a real rush. I saw my first Donzi while in this boat and owning one has been my focus ever since. On the Great Scandaga Lake just SW of Lake George I see more and more boats every year. The boats seem to get bigger and faster, it just takes money. I meet more and more high performance boaters every summer and I think most of them are a responsible lot. At most launch ramps, I have met guys towing everything from 21' Superboats to 35' Fountains and they all seem to know what they are doing. The guys who make me nervous are the causal boaters and of course the PWCs. The first time recreational boater, buys the family runabout which today can run 50mph with V6 power or a 150hp OB. Step hulls have made this humble bow riders quiker than high performance boats from 30 years ago. The average boat can do between 45 and 55 mph, and high performance boats are well into 70s and 80s. The point I'm making is that high performance is available to everyone out of the box, just write a check. I have seen guys launch 19' bayliners capable of 50mph without a clue as to what they are doing. On any given weekend I see guys tubing and water sking with their kids in tight inlets with a lot of boat traffic, instead of on the open parts of the lake. Last year we took friends of ours to Lake George for the day. We were cruising south on the lake through a tight passage of water, full of rocky shoals and islands called the Narrows, an area best treated with respect. We were Idling in a no wake zone about a 150 ft from shore when some asshole in a 32+ ft SeaRay was bearing down on us pulling a skier, givin the 18s low profile in the water and being stern on, I do not believe he saw us. I was able to react just in time as he passed within 30 feet of us and his wake spashed over the little 18's gunnals. The PWCs by their very nature present a different haszard, the opperators are usally young and inexperienced, plus they traval in large groups I was overtakeing some guy on PWC at 60mph when he spun around in my line of traval, just to cross my wake.

In NJ we have no shortage of bad drivers. Law inforcement loves to blame speed but the real cause of accidents in NJ is driver in attention, cell phones etc., speeding in high traffic areas, just a lack of common sence, and in NJ we pay dearly for our stupid driving habits with the highest insurance rates in the country. The 55mph speed limit finnally gone, never really addressed the safety issue. I do not think it will help with boating either, what you need is better boaters, shareing the water is all our responiblity. Everytime someone hurts or kills themselves or someone else on the water it gives the safety right more to point to. Maybey a boating license is the answer but somehow I don't think so, the more popular boating becomes the more jerks the sport will attract, and the more common it will become just like driving. You well see guys cruising in their 70 mph bowriders on the cell phone, a scarey thought.

SO-SLO

SHARKEYMARINE
12-06-2002, 03:08 AM
Latest update: 12-06-02
SPEED UPDATES (http://www.sharkeymarine.com/)

SHARKEYMARINE
03-05-2003, 10:22 PM
I can't say I didn't see this coming... :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
SPEED LIMIT UPDATES (http://pages.zdnet.com/sharkeymarine/id30.html)

<small>[ March 05, 2003, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: SHARKEYMARINE ]</small>

Shanghied Again
03-06-2003, 10:13 PM
Hello Everyone,

Over the last 6 months we collectively waged a battle against the NJ Boat Regulation Commission and other groups in regard to Speed Limits on inland tidal waterways. After much debate and excellent support by our supporters, we were successful in defeating the pending speed limit legislation.

A lot of us attended the last meeting of the NJ Boat Regulation Commission in Trenton and witnessed Mr. Roger Brown acknowledge that speed limits would not work. He stated that the expansion of a few no wake zones as well as a few new ones would be adequate. He also stated that mandatory boater education would be recommended to the State Legislature. I have talso talked to Roger Brown on several occasions since the Trenton meeting and I thanked him repeatedly for considering the FACTS and not FICTIONS in regard to their decision on speed limits.

As I mentioned in previous messages, I said that we won 80% of the battle but we needed to keep a "pulse" on the situation. Firstly, last week the initial boater educatrion bill was drafted and it stated "powerboaters" not boaters (which would include all boaters including sailboaters). That was brought to my attention and I scratched my head and vowed that I would question this when I got back from vacation (I'm currently on vacation in Florida with my family).

With being on vacation this week, I asked NJPPC member Frank Civitano to attend today's NJ Boat Regulation Commission meeting.

THANK GOD WE MADE GOOD ON OUR PROMISE TO FOLLOW THROUGH!!!!!

Today, Frank & Melissa Civitano along with 1 reporter were the only people who witnessed the following:

NJ Boat Regulation Commission is proposing that all of the Metedeconk & Toms River channels become NO WAKE ZONES. Frank Civitano asked the commission what did they base this on? They replied...."letters."

I CANNOT EXPRESS HOW DISAPPOINTED I AM IN THIS MOTION!!

The idea of making both bodies of water No Wake Zones is absolutely ludicrous and not based on factual data!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IF WE ALLOW THEM TO DO THIS - IT WILL LEAD TO MORE AND MORE NO WAKE ZONES UNTIL ALL INLAND WATERS ARE NO WAKE ZONES!!

Effective immediately, we are going to make good on our promise to continue this fight and we will not rest until a reasonable fact based plan is put in place.


Our game plan will be as follows:
1. Contact Mr. Roger Brown via email: 110324.745@compuserve.com and state your opposition!!!

2. Contact the following Legislators and state your opposition to the NJ Boat Regulation Commission's plan for NO WAKE ZONES as well as ask them if they are aware of their plan? I would bet they are not!

Assemblyman David W. Wolfe (R) tel 732 840-9028 Email: AsmWolfe@njleg.org
Assemblyman Sean T. Kean (R) tel (732) 776-8628 Email: AsmSKean@njleg.org
Senator Andrew R. Ciesla (R) tel (732) 840-9028 Email: SenCiesla@njleg.org
Senator Joseph A. Palaia (R) tel (732) 531-1303 Email: SenPalaia@njleg.org

3. Contact Jim Gearhart @ NJ 101.5 FM and express that Roger Brown's "Christmas Present to all boaters " as Jim called it on his radio show was a "Pearl Harbor Attack on the boaters in the State of NJ". This will help turn up the heat!!!!
Email Jim Gearhart at gearhart@nj1015.com

4. Contact Asbury Park Press Newspaper Reporter Kirk Moore: (732) 557-5728 He did an awesome job covering the Speed Limit Issue. He needs to sense the urgency of this matter.

The NJPPC Planning Committee has a meeting planned for next Fri night and will address the issue as well.

Thank you for your support and thank you in advance for your help with this matter.

Best Regards,
Dave Patnaude
President
NJPPC

SHARKEYMARINE
03-06-2003, 10:50 PM
Anyone using the Manasquan, Metedeconk, Toms River and portions of the Barnegat Bay better get ready to lobby!!! The commission has decided to blanket all these areas as SLOW SPEED NO WAKE ZONES!!! This is exactly the opposite of what they stated in the their meeting in January. They dropped the proposed Speed Limit idea only to turn around and try to make everything a Slow Speed No Wake Zone!!! This just proves even more that this is all about Sailboats getting to have the waterways for themselves... I have created a SPEED UPDATE page on my site to keep everyone informed. If this is the first you heard of the Speed Limit proposal, be sure to click onto the archives to see what has been happening. Please spread the word to everyone this will effect: Marina and Restuarant owners at the end of these rivers, Fishing boats, Performance boats, Jet Skis, WaveRunners, Waterskiers, etc. If this goes through, then it will only expand to other areas in the state. Thank you for your support.