New Vs Old trailer question

[clayman]

I borrowed a new aluminum trailer from a local trailer place today to display my boat on in Daytona for the boys at Donzi this weekend. Mine is old and in serious need of restoration. The Guy at the trailer shop of course wants to sell me this trailer for around $1400. It is nice but I like my tandem axle. I figure for around $300-$400 I could fix mine up real nice, new brakes, fenders, paint, etc. but it is tempting just to keep this new one. What do you guys prefer, single or dual axle?
James
http://www.donzi.net/photos/jspiroff87.jpg

[harbormaster]

I prefer the tandem. I can tow my boat long distance with greater piece of mind. It seems to be more stable on the road.
http://www.donzi.net/hull/DNAC8038J495/Mvc-690f.jpg

[Bryan Tuvell 33ZX]

Very nice trailer Scot.

I agree, tandem. I would likely have a stroke during a blow out on a single axle!
Good luck and take lots of pictures in Daytona.

Bryan

[Woodsy]

I would go the same way Scot did.... new, dual axle. I have a nice dual axle for my 22 and I wouldn't go any other way.... don't forget to get the hydraulic surge brakes on BOTH axles....

Woodsy Von Donzi :D :D

[Dr. Dan]

Clayman...Definitely hold out for a twin axle version, I would get one with the Torsion axles as Poodle describes....going down and coming home the great "Air 22" dude had a blow out each way on his trailer... eek! I can tell you from being in direct line of view...it would have been not pretty if he only had a single axle, we would have had a 22 Classic for a hood ornament :rolleyes: , use the single for your photo shoot/show and have him give you a price for a dual torsion axle trailer....also as an FYI, you can get all the parts you need to rebuild from Tiedown Engineering www.tiedown.com (http://www.tiedown.com) ,... :D Doc

[Bad-Tat]

Clayman,
I would go with the dual axle for your 18'. I have a single on the 16 but dual for the 22. B&G gave me a great deal on my Rolls for the 16.

[RH]

Clayman, I am in agreement here. I am on the lookout for a tandem for the Hornet this winter. The only negative that I have on the tandem is that they are not as easy to maneuver in the garage when storing, but that issue is not a big one for me as I have an easy place to store the boat. The oiece of mind when traveling down the road with a Tandem is well worth it. Beware of the costs that you can incurr on the resto of your old trailer. I have found on a few occasions that I can buy a new one for the cost of the parts and restoration of the old.
Good luck and have fun this weekend!
RH

[Cuda]

Go with a tandem. I bought this one earlier this year. It is overkill for the boat I have on it, but I can put a larger boat on it if I want, and the peace of mind with the tandem was worth the extra $150. I paid $1700 for it. They had another tandem a little smaller for $1500. If memory serves me right, the single axle was $1300.
Your boat looks great with that new trailer under it.

http://www.donzi.net/photos/jgrifff20.jpg

[Tidbart]

You guys make it sound like a single axle trailer is dangerous. What is dangerous is neglect of the trailer. Some people don't pay attention to tires, tire pressure, bearings, brakes, proper tie down, and proper sizing of the trailer. All these areas can lead to problems with any trailer.
Each individual has to take into account their plans for type of trailering, their budget, and their load.
In a lot of instances, dual axles with an 18 footer isn't necessary. You can buy a single axle trailer that will easily meet the load requirements of an 18.
Also, along with dual axles comes dual maintenance and expense on tires, brakes, and axles. The single axle trailer under Clayman's boat is a well built trailer. Used along with good common sense and regular inspection and maintenance will yield a lifetime of trouble free trailering.

My .02.

Bob

[Woodsy]

FYI...

Should you encounter a blowout or the trailer disconnecting from the tow vehicle (safett chains still attached).... ACCELERATE.... that will keep the trailer straight behind the tow vehicle..... then let the drag of the trailer slow you down to a stop...

BRAKES IN THIS SITUATION WILL GET YOU HURT....

Woodsy Von Donzi

PS: Bob is right, a single axle for an 18 is fine... dual axle is just a little better....

[clayman]

Well, I see this is a topic close to everyones hearts. I to agree that the tandem axle is the way to go, the single looks a little goofy. I like how the Dual looks a little lower profile. I still haven't decided if I should restore or not, comes down to TLC i guess. (Time/Labor/Cash) Many of you mentioned torsion axles, are they better than springs? I know my neighbor swears by them.
Jim

[Rootsy]

Man i didn;t know anyone had a photo of my tire from this summer! (the first one Ranman... yes i had 2)... BLOWOUTS on my single axle trailer under the 16... one busted cord which finally shredded and the second scrubbed a curb.. neither time did i have a spare with me (taking time to thank all of my friends)... ALL Taken care of now, you betcha eh, we are all spared up... yes dumb eh... very much so, but you live and learn... i like the tandem for the fact that you aren't SOL if you lose a tire and something happens to the spare. they are easier and more stable to pull also and generally come with the brake option. But for the amount of trailering i do during a summer it isn't worth the cost for me to buck up for a new tandem... nice to dream though!

[Fish boy]

Launching a boat on a wave is one thing, launching it on the intertstate is another. You really don't need the extra tire until you have a blow out; by then it is a little too late and I am guessing the 300-400 would be worth it on the side of the road.

By the way, the boat really looks good. I am sure Donzi will be proud to have it as part of their display in Daytona.

Fish

[Digger]

torsion suspension is far superior over springs. also agree with everybody else, dual axles provide redundancy for safety and will be more stable than a single axle trailer, provided it is loaded correctly.

by the way your boat looks absolutely superb!

[CDMA]

I do have to say I agree that a tandem is the best way to go. I was convinced one day towing my 19 Whaler on a single axle trailer over the George Washington and I lost a tire. It all happened so
fast and I am sure it didn’t look as bad as it felt but I have never been so scared in my life. I could have sworn I was going to loose the boat or worse yet the truck. If there had been someone to the left of me there WOULD have been an accident. Now this trailer was is perfect shape, new tires, wheels, bearings. It was maintained and in perfect working order. That being said I still did have a blow out and no matter how old or new the trailer it can happen.

Since that incident I have seriously evaluated my trailers. While this was a rare incident as I hardly ever tow the Whaler it got my attention. I got to thinking about the similar situation I had with my 18 Classic. A good condition perfect working order trailer but still single axle. I began researching trailer options and I learned a lot more then what I bargained for.

Before I talk about manufacturers the first thing I have to say is that I think an 18 Classic is one of the more difficult boats to properly select a trailer for. To make it simple she is too big for a single too small for most tandems. It isn’t the actual size on the trailer but the capacity that is the issue. Most tandems capacity ratings start in the area of 4000lbs and go to 6000lbs. One issue I was worried about was ride quality, I was worried the trailer would be too stiffly sprung for the boat. In short…it was. I quite a few friends with tandem trailers for their 18’s including Rolls, Continental and Eagle and I never heard any complaints from them about how hard their trailers rode. At first I thought it was something with my rig and it took me almost 4 months to figure it out: All my friends towing these tandem trailered 18 classics were towing with significantly bigger, heavier trucks then I was. The issue I had with the tandem is that I felt a little more “jerking” from the trailer then I used to with the single axle. After searching my brain for the answer it sort of came to me by luck. My truck was in the shop and I needed to move the boat so I borrowed a friends F250 super duty. As soon as I drove 500 feet I figured it out. The shear mass of the full size truck totally eliminated any of the ride harshness I was encountering with the smaller ( Dakota) I tow with. I quickly realized that all my donzi friends with tandem 18 classics towed with 1500 series or usually bigger trucks.

Now keep in mind this is not a significant amount of harshness just enough to annoy me especially considering I knew my old single axle was totally devoid of this. To make a long story short I wound up changing the spring rates on my trailer (extremely easy on a Rolls) to make the ride more comfortable. The end result was great. I have retained 90% of the ride comfort I had with my single axle trailer yet I have the benefits of the tandem.

For all of you out there with full size trucks and SUVs this most likely will never be an issue but keep in mind it may be occurring and due to the size of your tow vehicle it may not be noticeable. If I had a full size truck I never would have touched anything on my trailer but I am glad I started off towing with the smaller truck because I was able to fix a problem I would not even have known existed. Is this harshness bad for the boat? I really don’t think so. The amount I was dealing with was very minor and it was more a creature comfort issue then anything else but I can’t see how making the boat ride smoother could hurt it.

Now the real question is was it all worth it… this summer I lost a tire. I didn’t even know until the guy next to me pulled up and told me. :)

Ok now to trailer manufacturers. If I ever rule the world I will own a Myco. Absolutely gorgeous piece; all welded aluminum, custom fit, painted to match, exquisite. Also $7000++ for an 18 footer…Thanks but no thanks.

There are similar trailer companies such as Eagle that makes a comparable trailer out of painted steel but being a salt water guy I knew that was not an option for me. If your trailer even drives past salt…think twice before buying a steel trailer.

I wound up settling on the Rolls 2160T and I have been very pleased. While there are other manufacturers out there I think the finish work, lack of U bolts, complete aluminum and stainless construction, and some of the design features put the Rolls in a different category. Every time I look at the trailer I am amazed at some of the design features and how some of the assembly is executed. To see how they mandrel bend the entire frame to create a tongue, make an all aluminum winch stand and connect the cross members w/o U bolts is borderline breath taking. I have been using it now for almost 3 years in salt and other then the Fulton winch she looks almost the same as she did when I got her.

Would I do it again…my 22 sits on a 2670 rolls…

http://www.donzi.net/photos/callardrolls2.jpg

http://www.donzi.net/photos/callardrollsaft.jpg
22 trailer...
http://www.donzi.net/photos/rolls2670-2.jpg

http://www.donzi.net/photos/rolls2670.jpg

[clayman]

Chris that is real nice. Has anyone thought of having a trailer built similar to race boat trailers, with the extended rear frame which surrounds the drives and acts as a rear bumper. Some I have seen swing out of the way to load/unload. I hate the way the drive is just hanging out back there. That would really suck to get rear ended.
James

[Scott Pearson]

Single...double.....single....double.

I have a Single axle Roll's trailer under my 18. Its a 1935 model. Good for 3500lbs. The trailer waighs 400lbs.

Those of you who know me know I really dont pay attention to local speed limits. I run about 90 mph on all major highways. I think Cathy pushes 90+ when driving. I have never had a problem.

I love my single axle...Easy to park and move around.

(NJ)Scott

[Jamesbon]

10-4 on those Rolls'. I see a tandem in my future...

[mattyboy]

I am realatively new to the long haul trailer scene, When I got my boat it had a custom tandem trailer by performance of Lk george. for a 16 tandem is probably overkill, but I thought I was an expert learner and how easy it was to tow to lake george, I always hit the trailer in the center on and off with ease I tow with my wife's windstar not a real tow vehicle no problems.
UNTIL I TOWED MY FRIENDS 16 ' ON A BRAND NEW EASY LOADER SINGLE AXLE ROLLER TRAILER, THE BOAT WAS ALL OVER THE PLACE ON A 2 MILE RIDE TO THE MARINA AT SLOW SPEEDS HAD TO TRY 3 TIMES TO GET THE BOAT CENTERED ON THE TRAILER. SO I AM NOT AN EXPERT LEARNER THE TRAILER IS THE KEY!!!! CUSTOM , BUNKS NO ROLLERS, TANDEM ALWAYS
I love my trailer but I know some members have had problems with people at performance, buy my trailer is great
http://www.donzi.net/photos/mveth60.jpg
my .02

Matt

[harbormaster]

Tandem vs singl axle.

It is like comparing a single engine aircraft to a multi-engine aircraft.

Is a single engine aircraft unsafe? No.
Are your chances of survival lower when the engine quits?
Hell yes.

You never know when you are going to have a blow out. Even if you examine your trailer under a microscope ever time you tow it.

If you are dragging your boat an hour or less each way to the lake, a single will probably be safe enough. If you want to tow your boat longer distances it is worth the extra money.

Consider it insurance on your boat, tow vehicle and its occupants.

[Tidbart]

If dual axles are considered insurance, then insurance companies would lower your rates if you had one, right?? :p

Sorry Scott, I couldn't resist with the insurance company thing.

Bob

[Scott Pearson]

I only use my trailer tires under 80mph.
After that the boat and trailer comes up on plane...then hovers all the way there. Then its touch down time.

Did I metion...I have a pilots license?

(NJ)Scott

[Bryan Tuvell 33ZX]

MATTYBOY
ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL!
Enough said.
Bryan

[mattyboy]

thanks Bryan,

Scott P's trailer floats on the highway and in the water too!!!!!!! eek! :D
That's a first for me get the trailer in too far and it floats?????
aluminum or Ivory soap???

Matt

[harbormaster]

I hear folks swooning over rolls trailers all the time.

The rolls trailer looks pretty and the stainles hubs are cool but in my opinion the front mount is a joke. Lenny's arrived and the 16 did not even half way fit on it without about 4.5 hours work. Even then the boat did not safely sit on the front bunk/mount.

Lenny, did you ever get yours to fit right??

If it had been my boat and my trailer I would have sent the thing back to be redone!

[oldLenny]

Scot, NO SLAGGING !!!

This is the FIRST COMMENT I HAVE HEARD REARDING MY TRAILER, so I have to respond. Otherwise, I was going to just sit on it and use it as hindsight...and keep it to myself...

Yeah, Scot, I AGREE FULLY,...but when you drive insane distances (5500 miles return) just to have a "REAL ONE", boat that is, and with the guidance and happy thoughts from others, I felt I did the right thing. (trailer purchase) I did not want to have to think about the trailer, coming home,...ever...

YOURS' is set up the way MINE should have been. The front "V" yolk on the ROLLS is a joke...It is not meant for this boat or any fast entry hull. Another pair of longitudinal carpeted bunks would have been perfect. I am truly sorry for the work you had to put into the trailer to reasonably "accept" this hull. I am having it modified as we speak by a shop to make it "like the one of yours" from Zimmermarine. The quality is definately "nize", the ROLLS that is " but not set up for a DONZI or even close to the hull.

Way too short...

This,... after conversations with Dan at ROLLS and DAN at Coastal Trailer and Hitch.

Yes, he knows who I am,..yes, now knows that many times...his assurances of the set-up being done right, I mentioned Chris Allard, DONZI.NET and all the rest of the "guiding lights",...flipping the bunks end-for-end etc to put the boat over the rear spreader... the prep required to create what WE want.

Didn't work...

I have what is stamped a model #1730, when I bought and paid for a #1935. #1730 is stamped on the trailing arms and now I have the weight issues here in CANADA from "TRANSPORT CANADA" and some non-compliance issues from them. Dan at ROLLS AXLE said it is simply a "mistake" on the punches and an employee. I asked an employee what the total length should be, got an answer, then questioned mine, got an answer, not right. Then got a phone call, asking what the length was, and then told,..."no, that's right". One employee told me what the total length of the unit should be from stem to stern, then I was told another. Just a stamping issue... :rolleyes: I don't live in FLA and can't pursue this. 'Nor could I. 'Nor can I ask for things to be fitted and fixed. Can't measure a "new" #1935 either as this is probably the only one here in CANADA...The boat got home and was supported. (piece of mind). Transport Canada, long story short, they said that if I can't comply, it has to be "EXPORTED"...) :rolleyes:

I bought a trailer for a 19' boat, load rated, and with the bunks flipped forward, it is still about 24" short of putting the transom over the rear spreader. I have to re-drill the forward frame, to accept the winch stand and get the rear of the hull over the tie-bar and associated bunk. This also takes the winch stand from being supported on the "pull or push" by a "V" longitudinal support, now, to an inline one, as the "flare" is now gone in the trailers' arms. This is a 19' boat trailer with a 16' SKI SPORTER... :confused:

ZIMMERMARINE treated SCOT GOOD. I like his trailer. It works perfectly. I spent the same or more for single axle and am now going to spend another $300-400 dollars for modifications to make it actually work. What is with those front "V" yolks and a DONZI anyway.

Next time ,...I will try Zimmermarine or Continental or any other. Poodle has one (Continental) and likes it on his 18 and I have 4 of the same boats but with smaller cockpits to trailer :D . (one at a time mind you :rolleyes: )

Live and learn...

Nice post SCOT VAN A... :D

Oh, and as an "aside", I heard, not from him mind you, FORREST, and his new ROLLS tandem, #2160, that they had to modify the winch stand and the rest, re-drill holes etc, to locate the boat more towards the bumper of the towing vehicle. This is on a trailer that is meant for a boat that is 3 feet longer than his. It doesn't fit to be supported without leaving his "tally-wag" out waiting to hook. (X-boat) If you buy a ROLLS I would buy a trailer rated for a boat that is 6' longer than the boat you are putting on it. Then be prepared to modify the front bunks.

Still, mind you, put together nicely...

Oh yeah,...now I have to go back to TRANSPORT CANADA and deal with my "stamping issue"...

I think, personally mind you, and I haven't read page one of this post, that SCOT VAN A, 'cuz he has nothing better to do :rolleyes: , should market this club, the boats, the Classics, and get someone to build "WHAT WE WANT", no problems, drive-on, fit pretty...aluminum and STAINLESS, and walk into an established business. I couldn't refuse an offer like that.

If I could weld I would die for this contract and clientel... eek!

At least the trip there and back and the "PEOPLE I MET IN TEXAS" were worth EVERY PENNY!!! I had a Blast!!!...CHEERS!!!

...Aluminum and Stainless is pretty...applying it to funtion,...is ART...

No more comments...

[Cuda]

Lenny, where in Florida is Rolls sold? I'll go down and measure a #1935 for you if it is near me. Sounds to me they didn't sell you the trailer that you paid for.

[oldLenny]

The overall length of the trailer is 18' 6" from the tip of the ball mount to the end of the trailing arms/rear crossarm. The carpeted bunks extend beyond that. This is a #1935 supposedly. The metal stamped into the aluminum says "W 1730, and then #13095, the last part of the digits in the serial number. The model #1730 is the one down from the #1935. The "decal" on the trailer has the above correct serial numbers and lists it as a #1935. I don't know which one it really is.

Either the thing was stamped wrong and it is the right trailer, (aluminum I-beam), or the wrong I-beams were used in the construction of it. (It is a nut and bolt put together thing.) Regardless, it should be about 2 feet longer than what it is to work properly.

If it is correct, and maybe it is, then these trailers are too short. I would recommend a #2160 (21 foot boat) for the 16 to set it up correctly and get somethng different than the front "V" support put in place.

No, I am not going to do anything about it, as I said, I am having it modified to be right and add stuff that should be there. Yes, Poodle, a 4"H x 6"W block of wood is a bit much for the hull. eek! I believe they do that (overkill on the plank thing) to let the bed supports overhang the rear arm by A LOT in order to get the longer boats on it that they were supposedly designed for. I am turning a "three by" on edge as Scots' is. Better way to go and if need be I can "scribe it" to the hull bottom running it forward so it is still a drive-on but conforms to the curvature as it runs towards the bow. The beauty of the metal (aluminum) is it is new and adding things is a breeze. (for those that can weld it).

I can't even imagine a 19' boat on this thing eek!

I am not going to pursue this. No slagging please, and it just might be right. Doing business with them from 2500 miles away was a breeze.

Not going to buy another one tho.

(p.s., anyone want to measure a #1935 from ball mount end to rear trailing arm, crossmember, I-beam run-out?, then I can rest... :D )

[Forrest]

Lenny, Scott Pearson has that same Rolls trailer and I bet that he's good with a tape measure too.

James, you mean to tell me that George over at B&G wouldn't lend you a tandem-axle Magic Trail aluminum trailer? He should have had one of those in stock since he suppose to be the largest stocking dealer of that make. He used to sell Rolls, and that where I bought my 26100T for my 27 Magnum, but I hear that there was some falling out between he and Dan over at Rolls Axle. BTW, the 26100T fit perfectly with only moving the winch stand a couple of notches and getting the angle of the bunks right. I will say though, it was much more involved in getting my new Rolls 2160T set up for my X-18 than it was to get the 26100T set up for the Magnum.

When you order a tandem axle Rolls trailer for an 18 Donzi, they send it to you with the bunks turned around so that there is only about 6-inches of overhang which seems good in that you will have aluminum frame just about all the way to the transom. The only problem is that if you set your winch stand so that the boat's transom is overhanging about inch off of the rear of the bunks you end up with about 400 lb. of tongue weight, which our '98 Jeep Cherokee Grand Laredo could never handle. Also, the bunks seem to stick too far forward as well. So here is what we did to fix that problem. First, I pulled the boat back on the trailer until I measured between 150 and 175 lb with a bathroom scale under the tongue jack. Mine ended up at 165 lb. Well that puts the winch stand back about a foot and a half from where it was before. I lined the winch stand up to the nearest set of holes and did a whole bunch of adjustments, which included a couple of new 3/8" holes to set the bow stop height, and cut off the excess winch post which was now hanging down under the trailer almost touching the street. Also, I wound the strap on the winch the other way to allow a straight pull from the bottom of the winch spool to the bow eye instead of the slight upward pull when the winch is wound over the top as it comes from the factory. Now, I had a problem with bunks being way too far forward and no bunk support up to the transom. For that reason, I turned the bunks around so the long end hangs off the rear and cranked the X-18 tightly up against the bow stop. I then towed it around the block hitting the brakes hard a few times in order to snug the bow against the stop and to relieve any bind that aluminum trailers get after you crank the boat up using only the winch. Finally, I marked the bunks where they would end at the transom, then removed the bunks one at a time, peeled back the carpet, and cut cut each bunk about a foot shorter using a trusty ol' Sthil chain saw. Last, I contoured the edges like the factory does with a small rotary sander/grinder. After the carpet was cut to match the shorter bunks and reattached, I bolted in the bunks through newly drilled frame mounting holes which was necessary since the factory drilled mounting locations don't place the bunks in the correct position between the inner and outer lifting strakes of the X-18. Yea, it was lots of work, but after having the Goodyear Marathon tires balanced, it tows like a dream at 80 MPH with not a hint of sway behind our trusty 6-cyl '98 Jeep Cherokee Grand Laredo. Yea it was kind of a bitch to get it set up, but I can't complain now. Even though the Rolls 2160T is rated at 6000 lb., the radial tires soften the ride just enough where the X-18 doesn't seem to get bumped around much. I probably should have ordered brakes since the Jeep has only OK brakes.

I just got back from a thousand mile round trip towing the X-18 on the new Rolls from Tallahassee to mile-marker seventy something in the Florida Keys, and the only real problem that I found with a tandem axle trailer is when you get to the toll booth! Holy greenbacks Batman! We spent over $80 in tolls between Wildwood and Homestead. That's much more than I spent on gas for the X-18 the whole time down there, but those toll roads are the roads you want to take though South Florida.

Oh BTW, 'poodle, I like Dad's Whitewater and oceanfront fish shack! Nice! I sure wish that we could have stuck around a little longer, but had to go. I think that MM seventy something may become a regular thing. You know, we can always stay at Uncle Ken Sorensen's house in Key Largo, especially if he get re-elected to the Florida House (District 120). I'm sure you've seen his big old ugly orange signs littering the overseas highway from Florida City to Key West. If he wins he will be in Tallahassee and no one will be at is house in Key Largo - except us! Campaign on Ken!!!

http://www.donzi.net/photos/theX.jpg

[Scott Pearson]

Lenny,
I have a 1935 and yes the boat ends at the bunks. Scot V said something about the front bunks....they are only guides...not for support!

95% of the weight has to be at the rear bunks. My 18 fits great and I love the trailer...no problems here.

Give me a call later tonight...aroubd 9:30 and I can measure some things for you.

(732) 886-5498

(NJ)Scott