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evetsathom
04-05-2003, 05:22 AM
I am considering purchasing a 22 classis with a 502. It is a fresh water boat and I live on a coastal bay (high salinity). I feel like I should install a fresh water cooling system prior to the move. Can anyone give me an idea of the cost involved ?

Cuda
04-05-2003, 06:15 AM
I bought a system for a SBC for $500. The installation takes a couple hours, nothing very tough about it. I had to put a slightly shorter belt on the alternator and that was it. I think the kit I bought will work on a BBC also. I would definetly go with the system BEFORE putting it in salt. Here is where I bought mine. http://www.oceaneastmarine.com

Donzigo
04-05-2003, 07:31 AM
I think the cost of Mercruiser parts is about $1,000 to $1,200 for the kit.

Install it before you give that virgin engine a drink of salt, or forget about it.

BigGrizzly
04-05-2003, 09:49 AM
I have them on all my boats. The best one is the one on the Criterion. It is called a full flow system and of new design. I6t is smaller, lighter, more stable and more eefficient than the other markers. Mine complete with circ pump and additional water hoses and fittings is 52 pounds. The system was designed for a 700 hp blower motor(mine) and is stable as a rock. It is also more mony about $800. this is cheap to protect my aluminum cylinder heads and new modifications. My opinion is to do it! One more small point is the fuel economy has in creased a little. BTW the merc system isn' as good. Where to get a system like mine is www.perfprotech.com. (http://www.perfprotech.com.) They like Donzi people since they rode in my boat.

<small>[ April 05, 2003, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: BigGrizzly ]</small>

boatnut
04-05-2003, 10:04 AM
I have to throw my two cents into this discussion. Install a heat exchanger if you want to but don't feel it is necessary. If you are going to berth the boat in salt water, it is worth the money and the weight. If you are going to keep the boat out of the water and launch it weekly or whatever (which I assume is the case with a classic 22), I wouldn't mess with the stock setup. If you spend 10 minutes flushing the engine with fresh water after it is in salt, and wash the boat and trailer well (which you have to do in either case), corrosion will not be a problem for the life of the boat/engine. A marine engine (such as Mercruiser) is highly protected with non-corrosive metals in the key places (such as freeze plugs etc.) The inside of the cooling passages being cast iron is not an issue when you flush the engine --an extremely light surface coat of iron oxide (rust) on these parts in itself acts as a protection layer. I speak from 40 years of experience with every type of boat in salt water use and both types of cooling systems. I have yet to have a failure due to salt corrosion (this includes cast iron and aluminum manifolds and engines). In summary, this is more of an emotional issue than a real threat, BUT if you don't clean the boat properly ---salt will get it regardless of the type of cooling system you have.

boatnut
04-05-2003, 10:55 AM
I hit the go button too soon on my last post. There is one other consideration of cooling system type (raw water vs heat exchanger). A marine engine that uses raw (sea) water in the block will typically be thermostated to run at 145 degrees or less -- as the salt falls out of the salt water solution at higher temps. A block that has a closed loop coolant system can be set up to run at a more efficient 180+ degrees.
I still don't think this difference is worth converting a boat over --- but I believe it is more significant than the corrosion experienced on a well cared for boat that is used in sea water.

Cuda
04-05-2003, 12:58 PM
I still say for $500 and a couple hours, it is well worth it. The closed cooling will pay for itself when you sell. Think about it, would you believe someone that ran in salt with raw water even if he said it was "always" flushed?

Zinger
04-05-2003, 05:03 PM
I only run in salt water and always flushed and washed down after use even if was only for a hour run ,about 150 hours on the engine the engine was torn down for so mod and everything looked good except the alum. intake which does not have a brass crossover had some errosion. The fellow down the street has a twenty year old boat and finally had to change this engine, how much more time could he have gotten if it was fresh water cooled. I believe if the owner cares and maintains his boat it will last a good many years and yes i thought many times about FWC and always came back to the same old answer ,just look at that 100k plus boat at the show and try to find the FWC system .Jeff

MOP
04-05-2003, 07:32 PM
I too agree with its more emotional than a real threat with care. I have run aluminum manifold years back in salt. I got decent service with very little rot, but did flush good. Its not just corrosion that needs to be addressed, electrolysis does a fair bit of damage with mixed metal motors. I tap the water passage for a Zink on aluminum manifolds, I really think it helps. Where ever water flows whether in coolers or manifolds the electrolyte is constantly renewed making for problems. Merc has been as many know copper cladding the water passage, guess what its not holding up. New fulie manifold is just over 1k and the welders are not cheap either. I stuck a Zink in a four year old 502 that rotted or burned through that we had welded. The idea of Copper/Brass Cladding (same family) is really really Stupid! I know for a fact that copper and aluminum are lousy together in salt. When I was crewing the big Tin Boats IE: Aluminum sail boats guys who wanted revenge for what ever reason would drop pennies in the bilge. You would be quite surprised how quickly the rot through making decent sized holes in the bottom.

<small>[ April 05, 2003, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: M.O.P. ]</small>

BigGrizzly
04-06-2003, 12:56 AM
Well after 2 sets of motors in my Dads boat befor the closed system and 25 years after with the same motors I will do it that way. Boat nut if you never heard of somone ever loosing a motor to corosion ust call Dalema, his intake rotted and his Minx isn't kept in the water. I almost lost my first H&M motor in my 16 for exhaust corosion caused cylinders to fill with salt water. I cough it same day and was able to swap exhaust and do 5 oil changes and saved it. I have seen this many times. Some are luckier than others. $500 to $800 is a cheap insurance. One of our boats has had the same engine in it for 30 years. I will admitt it has been used very little the past 4 years, but I think that is about to change, my sister is getting some free time now.

Well Jeff look harder every 496 Mercruiser as one on it and they are starting to put them on everything even some race motors. And the fact is that Merc is cheap and doesn't spend money unless is absolutly necessary

BoatN, you are correct but the days of 145 are gone they moved up to a 160 cap. This is because salt cristalizes at 160 but when the engine is running at 160 the exhaust is about 140 with a bypass system.

Mop, funny, you mentioned the Merc problem. The zinks do help. providing you change them. There was an artical in a sae publication on not using copper head gaskets in marine use with any aluminum engines. One engine was the old Merc 470 which came stock with a closed cooling sustem in the mid 1980s somebody got creative and put on a coper head gasket, need I say more. It lasted less than 6 months.

<small>[ April 06, 2003, 12:58 AM: Message edited by: BigGrizzly ]</small>

MOP
04-06-2003, 07:01 AM
When I found out that Merc was cladding the aluminum I almost could not brlieve it. When I was a Merc guy years back I was running some of their two blade bronze props, burned the heck out of my gear cases. Sure was glad to see S/S props come along. Most every O/B and I/O manufacturer tried bronze props. They all dropped them, so along comes Merc and clads manifolds. The zinc does work, but I have found you need to bush the manifolds as the aluminum loses its threads after a few changes. I have been putting 1/2X1" zincs in, they need a change after about 40 hours. I think anyone with aluminum in salt would benifit with a zink job. Our toys are not cheap, fresh water cooling, lots of oil changes and zinks will leave alot of jingle in your pockets over the years. I have yet to go over 15 hours on my oil changes and my puppy is damn near stock.

To This End Get a Kit and save that motor if you are running Mixed metals. But I stand firm on It will Wear out before it rots out if its all cast iron and flushed.

Cuda
04-06-2003, 07:24 AM
Now that I reread the original post, he was asking about the cost of a CC system, not whether he needed one or not.

Maybe our salt is saltier, or something to do with the higher temperatures in Florida, but salt can and will eat up your cast iron. You can generally figure 3 to 5 years on exhaust and a couple more years on the heads before they will need to be replaced.

MOP
04-06-2003, 07:34 AM
Cuda you are 100% right, I lived in the Niceville area of the panhandle back in the 50's. Everything rots quicker down there.

BUIZILLA
04-06-2003, 08:04 AM
MOP, I have never seen a zinc added in an aluminum intake before....

what a helluva good idea..

wonder if SSM has extra ports for them on each side too ??

I'm with Griz bigtime on the CC system..why not? an MC aluminum intake costs more than a complete CC system anyways..

J

counting the days for 22 freedom

MOP
04-06-2003, 11:24 AM
BUIZILLA I have been drilling the cross over passage, tapping for a large enough bushing to accept the zinc. I use liquid sealer not Teflon tape to insure good contact. I am using brass bushings and as you know the zincs are mounted in brass so good contact is essential. I do not tap deep, just enough to get a decent thread to keep the zinc from bottoming.

boatnut
04-06-2003, 09:05 PM
All good points guys. I wasn't aware of all the mixed metal fiascos that found their way into the motors. I have a 42' cruiser I keep in salt water and proper electrolysis management is do or die.
I guess my summary point (and believe it or not I think we are all in agreement), is that regardless of cooling system type you must thoroughly wash the boat and get the salt off of everything (deck hardware, interiors, engine compartment, drives, trailers etc.) after use in salt --- the sooner the better as it is sometimes tempting to hit the bar and the restaurant and save the task for another day. If you fail to do this the boat will have all the pitting and tell tale signs of a salt-water boat within a year or two. And for a last jab, I think adhering to this wash and care discipline will effect the value of the boat after 20 years more than the closed cooling system will. Thanks for all the info.