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View Full Version : Scorpion 18 Classic -- How Fast?????



Craig
10-09-2002, 07:51 AM
Wasn't aware of what the Scorpion 18 Classic was until I checked following a recent post. Apparently (correct me if I'm wrong), it is an 18 Classic with a Scorpion engine package. I had the promo video from a couple years back about the 18 Classic with the 350/300hp mag. (very cool video). It claimed about 73mph with 300hp. It looks like the Scorpion engine is 350hp. So the big question: how fast is it?

Ranman
10-09-2002, 11:01 AM
Craig, I also have a promotional video on a 1997 Donzi 350MAG 300HP boat. The driver of the boat announces the speedometer is reading 72 or 73MPH. This is a bit optimistic for that boat. A 350 MAG 300HP 18 Classic will run 66-68 MPH. The 18 Classic with the 377 Scorpion will run 71-73 MPH.

RickSE
10-09-2002, 11:20 AM
Unfortunately the 18-Classic Scorpion seems to be no more as of 2003. It's not listed in the 2003 pricing and I believe has been discontinued. Same goes for the 6.2L engine. The only engine option listed for the 2003 18-Classic is the 350 MAG.

Same thing for the 22ZX, 350 MAG is the only engine option for 2003.

I believe Kraven has possession of the only 18-Classic Scorpion ever built.

Craig
10-09-2002, 11:25 AM
Ranman, I had wondered if that claim wasn't just a tad high. Seems like there are a good many boats here (this site) around 300 hp w/ stainless props, etc. and they weren't saying mid 70's. Still that's moving pretty good in an 18' boat. I haven't worn that video out yet, but I pop it in a lot; especially in January and February.

Craig
10-09-2002, 11:28 AM
Discontinued!!!!!???? Bummer, I was just picking up the phone to order one...

...just kidding.

Rootsy
10-09-2002, 12:25 PM
hmmmmm guess you could alway build your own... right chris??? wink

Doug L.
10-09-2002, 03:12 PM
How fast,Not as fast as Old Yeller!!!!!!!!!
Yet anyways!!

clayman
10-09-2002, 03:24 PM
I believe Mark Lazlos 18 is a scorpion "Last Tango

Doug L.
10-09-2002, 04:32 PM
The guy across the from me lake has a 2002 18
with a 6.2 mpi not a scorpion package, but
it sure is nice.
Doug

Rootsy
10-09-2002, 06:43 PM
Doug, You and I sure aren't doing a very good job of getting him to introduce himself here are we? Did he get his overheating issue resolved? We have to make sure he goes to Kentucky with us!

and yes.. that is ONE SWEET 6.2L 18... although i am still waiting for a ride!

Jamie

CDMA
10-09-2002, 06:49 PM
Jamie how could my little "stock" 350 possibly keep up... wink

Chris

Thinking I need to stuff some restrictors in the speedo pick up so Dad doesn't catch on...

HP 600SC
10-09-2002, 08:55 PM
There were a total of 3 18 Scorpion's built.

Woodsy
10-10-2002, 06:18 AM
Don't kid your self.... if you got the $$$ Donzi will build it.....

Woodsy Von Donzi :D :D

CDMA
10-10-2002, 06:24 AM
My hero Red Renyolds has proven that wrong...go figure...

Anything but strokers poodle...

Chris

Looking at the picture Bertram boy wants...

Craig
10-10-2002, 12:02 PM
Another dumb question: Is the 6.2 a SBC or a BBC?

CDMA
10-10-2002, 12:12 PM
SBC. 350 with a 1/4" stroke increase= 377 ci or 6.2L. Add a .30 overbore and you get a 383.

Chris

Craig
10-10-2002, 12:34 PM
Cool. I knew Chevy previously made a 400 SB and a 400 BB (I think). I know I'm showing my ignorance, but I had thought a 383 was a big block! I'm learning. I know my old Ford 351W (the Holman Moody) had been bored to .30 and it ran great, but when it died I looked into repairing rather than replacing. I was told it would need bored to .40 and some guys told me they thought that might get kind of hot in a marine application, so I got the new PCM351. Same approx. hp (slightly less compression), but even though the new one idles nicer (a plus to me) I lost some umph that the old engine had. Used to run an honest 57mph with an aluminum prop which I thought was pretty good. Now only low 50's. Need that stainless now!!! Anyway thanks for the GM lesson.

Barry Phillips
10-10-2002, 12:49 PM
Hi Craig, the number I heard on the Scorpian package was in the 79mph range, but I think that number is more than optimistic for 350hp. I would say a realistic number would be 73 to 75 mph depending on weather and setup. I recenly demoed a 2003 Classic 18 with a 350mag and a Alpha drive spinning a 25 pitch Marage Plus and it managed 60 mph with for people aboard and not broke in yet. So 68 mph for this package is a realistic number. If takes 100 hp to gain 5 mph give or take than 50hp should only net another 3mph so low 70s seems realistic for a Scorpian.

The dealer told me that Scorpian option is dead but the standard 6.2 Bravo package is still available. He also told me he could not get a Bravo with the Magnum, hard to believe.
I have a Classic 18 with a standard 350L rated at 250hp and a Bravo 1 drive spinging 23 pitch SS Vengeance prop and I can run a confirmed 65mph with a passenger, I have seen 67 in my boat alone on the speedo.

By the way when I purchased the boat in 98 the Bravo was only available with the Magnum, but Donzi was happy to bolt one on for $200 bucks the best $200 bucks I ever spent.
SO-SLO

Rodger
10-10-2002, 01:26 PM
How is that 6.2 package built? Was it done the correct way using the long rods with the raised wrist pin pistons?

CDMA
10-10-2002, 01:35 PM
Rodger,

I am 99% sure it is built using the 5.7 rods not the 5.65 like the old 400. It does not however use the new 6" rod that has come into favor in the hi-po world.

Chris

HyperDonzi
10-10-2002, 01:40 PM
Just imagine that with the All New Whipple Charger... :D

DS88
10-10-2002, 07:36 PM
Barry,

Thanks for the ride up at Lake George, it was good for the sole. I still can't believe that engine is a two barrel...it's the fastest two barrel I've seen, land or sea.

Dave

KRAVEN
10-10-2002, 09:58 PM
Looking to install a whipple on my 2002 Donzi Scorpion Classic 526hp,605 ft.lb.torque,bravo xz drive,checking on a 2in.shorter lower unit by IMCO try for triple didgets.IS IT POSSIBLE?

CDMA
10-10-2002, 10:37 PM
eek! eek! eek!

Tony
10-10-2002, 10:37 PM
Bill,

Won't you theoretically be in the mid 80's with just the Scorpion/Imco shortie setup? That will smoke all 18's (except one!), and most other boats you will run across regardless of length.

Be careful what you wish for. There has been many interesting discussions regarding the capabilities/handling of a deep vee hull.

BTW, did I miss a post about your warrenty issues and where you currently stand with that?

CDMA
10-10-2002, 10:47 PM
Tony,

Be careful the Allard skunkworks exists....

Chris

Woodsy
10-11-2002, 06:22 AM
Kraven...

Geoo's X-18 was running 700+ HP with an Arneson surface drive and he got to 104mph. I am not exatcly sure of what rpm he was turning at that speed, but suffice to say its well over the 5200 redline of your Scorpion package. Your proposed setup will be fast, I would guess high 80's, but thats about it. The IMCO shorty, while a great drive, still has a tremendous amount of drag. Drag increases exponentially relative to the speed of the object. You also will run out of hull as well. One of the advantages an Arneson has is that the prop is 2 1/2 feet off the back of the boat. This makes the boat "think" its bigger than it really is.

Woodsy Von Donzi :D :D

Craig
10-11-2002, 06:35 AM
So you're saying at very high speed the boat begins to "think"? Scary! I guess at 104mph it could seem to have a mind of its own if you weren't reeeeeeal careful!

Greg Maier
10-11-2002, 07:01 AM
Woodsy,
What exactly does "run out of hull" mean? I've heard that used before but don't quite understand the concept.

Ranman
10-11-2002, 08:23 AM
Before adding a Whipple Charger to a 6.2 or Scorpion, I would do some serious research. Do the Scorpions have forged or hypereutectic pistons? I have seen posts that indicate that there MAY be some issues with supercharging the 6.2's. Check out the correspondences between Whipple Charged and Uncle Toys in the below post. I think this guy was running standard 6.2's and not Scorpions so it may be a moot point if the Scorps are better candidates for blowers. Interesting reading however.

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32029&highlight=whipple

Craig
10-11-2002, 08:50 AM
Greg, I think Woodsy is saying the faster you go the higher the boat gets, so with a deep V you are riding on a smaller and smaller area of your hull the faster you go.

roadtrip se
10-11-2002, 08:51 AM
Kraven,

Here are the Donzi performance numbers for your boat. http://www.donzimarine.com/the_boats/tb_classic_performance.html.

Start with 73-75. Add shortie for 3-5 or 76-80.
Then whipple for 10-15 or 86-95, probably into the low 90's. Might want to think about steering and a updated life insurance policy for all of the reasons stated above.

Better yet, buy a 22 and go this route and see high 90's with a whippled 500 on a platform that won't threaten to kill you every time you drive it.

Heck, I'll even make this process easier for you.
I'll buy the 18 from you, warranty issues and all, the way she sits. Let me know...

Todd

GEOO
10-11-2002, 12:16 PM
Kraven,
I like the sound's of that project!!! My guess she would run mid to upper 80's!! It would be a drivers boat!! eek!

KRAVEN
10-11-2002, 04:08 PM
Road trip,
Sorry to say shes not for sale,only 3 Scorpions made mine being #1.Taking the boat to a glass shop Sat.to determine if it will require a trip back to the motherland,I can only hope!

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
10-11-2002, 04:20 PM
Am I behind on drinking today? :p
Seems some started early this week....
Especially ROADTRIP, thats what you need, another lake boat for the vacation home!
A week ago you were talking 42 Fountains again!
One week until I go back to the factory (26ZX in tow), I made an offer on the 33ZX we took out, maybe I will get lucky!
Doubt it....
STANDBY FOR REMOTES!
Bryan
http://www.donzi.net/photos/tuvellfountain.jpg

Doug L.
10-11-2002, 05:53 PM
Hi Bill
I thought you were in Jamaic,
I will be looking forward to a good
spanking from that baby. I sure hope
they take good care of you, you deserve
it.
Doug
PS: Had fun out by you place tell Liz
I said hi.

Dr. Dan
10-11-2002, 07:13 PM
:D Greg...Running out of Hull is a concept not too disimilar from over driving your headlights when you are driving your car... eek! if you over power your hull's intended design, you get into the serious liklihood of cashing in those insurance policies for whoever survives you! Watch the hydroplane races sometime and you'll see these guys with nutz horsepower doing a lake equal of a 1/4 mile run....it's pretty amazing to watch, very few drivers could safely handle that on a regular basis. :rolleyes:

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
10-11-2002, 10:25 PM
ROADTRIP, great REMOTE shot, as far as the thread goes, I run out of motor, not hull :( .
A personal problem I guess....

After an hour reading the thread listed above, I am surprised at the construction of the Scorpion.
DUSTIN at Whipple brings out allot of good tech info for those who are interested.
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32029&perpage=30&pagenu mber=1 (http://www.offshoreonly.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32029&perpage=30&pagenumber=1)
It is a LONG thread (it starts slow!), but gets good, basically a guy with twin 6.2 whippled smoked a motor and is VERY unhappy (PAGE 2 and 3 get REAL good), judge for yourself, and it is threads like this that helps me realize a "warranty" is a GREAT thing when you run hard! Like I tell my buddy, your 15 MPH faster, but your always slowing down for the rest of the club! When he has problems, we boat!
Bryan

BigGrizzly
10-12-2002, 08:59 AM
I'm with Geoo, upper 80's with that HP. If you do it put on external steering or put your head between your legs and kiss your but goodby. I do know what 585 Hp and a Imco shortie does on a 18 Python(a plugged Donzi) and it isn't 90 mph and it is a real handfull according to boat racer Gary Vaughn. He won't drive it again without external steering.

HP 600SC
10-12-2002, 09:17 AM
There is a very good HP dealer/shop in my area, They have installed many Whipple and Prochargers.....over 20! So far none have lasted more than 1 year without grenading the motors
Not a very relible option and very expensive when
it takes out the motor. If you bolt one on I beleive the engine needs to be built to handle it.
Oh yea...the bravo drive usually goes out in about 1/2 the time before the engine goes.

roadtrip se
10-13-2002, 04:59 PM
Kraven,

Offer stands when you are ready! I think what makes your boat special is the #1 designation and how it came from the factory. I wouldn't mess with it. Good luck with your warranty issues!
There are other boats that would respond to tuning, mine being an example, but I wouldn't mess with what you have now!

Baxter, looks like you are spared the embarrassment of Jill blowing by you in the X, all smiles and waves. I'm still not off the hook for an 18 for her...

Tuvell, I would rather get four root canals in a single sitting than care for and feed another F-boat, much less hang around the crowd that is drawn to the things. The remote shots must have been flowing heavy for me to say such a thing. Just sucker punch and knock me out cold the next time such a line of bull comes out of my mouth!
Good luck with your deal, by the way!

Finally, while I have enjoyed the rides in super-charged boats like Grizzley's, I agree with Ted and others here. Nothing beats the dependability of normally aspirated motors. Be ready to spend a lot more time wrenching on a super-charged beast and dumping cash in it! Been there done that, times two! I've had a great time dialing my 500 boat in over the past few months and not worrying about breaking it is a big plus! By the way, thanks to everybody here who has helped in the process...

Packing up a P5 propeller for return to Hydromotive tomorrow... :(

Todd

Gritz
10-13-2002, 09:58 PM
1st time I've ever laughed about a root canal. :D